Ultimately a fruitless, futile debate.

There is no doubt that there is an issue with housing prices in Auckland but >> why is Labour not holding the Council to account? I understand there is zoning
that prevents building any further than at present - does that really make >> sense?

The scenario is that of a country and its major city in an economic
death spiral with a government and a council in an irreconcilable
conflict over who's responsible for what. As Spike Miligan once put
it, "The blame is spread so equally it doesn't notice."

More importantly, though, even if **self-generated** funds were
adequate and solutions were to be decided and implementation begun
tomorrow morning, the potential benefit would arrive **years** too
late. As they contemplate the widening, deepening economic sink-hole confronting them, both government and city are now overhelmed by the
enormity of their failure competently to manage New Zealand's affairs.

But let's see how the current government's score-card is doing just
now:

1. Private debt out of control.

2. Reserve Bank hopelessly impotent, being hostage to its own
now-intractable high exchange value/low interest rates/low inflation/ declining labour productivity conundrum. No way out of it's own
Catch-22, not now, not ever..

3. Increase in rate of labour-productivity in steady, unbroken decline
since the early 1990's. It is now all but static.

4. Educational standards declining - (OECD comparative stats)

5. Woeful lack of **real** increases over time in GDP to fund
infrastructural development and inititatives.

6. Lack of skilled labour available to service #5.

7. The cynical vaunting of GDP numbers that, were they honest and
excluded **unproductive** economic activity, would be **negative.**

8. Insufficient affordable housing to accommodate New Zealanders, let
alone arriving immigrants, while immigration is not only only at an
all time high but increasing. This, mark you, while New Zealander's
have become increasingly centred on selling New Zealand both to both foreigners and each other - i.e. **Zero** real GDP, but Bill English
simply can't get enough of it! Cloud-Cuckoo Land, the lot of it!

A dismal and unedifying record of governmental failure, I agree, but
it'll do for now, adding only this:

When we have a government minister trying to bribe its lower
socio-economic citizens to move to clapped-out flyblown
death-by-unemployment hicksvilles like Huntly so that she can free up Auckland properties for uncontrolled numbers of wealthier immigrants
**to walk into**, you know the lunatics are in charge of the asylum
and there can be no possible redemption for New Zealand.

So seek to ask no further why your eponymous "hard-working" Kiwi finds
he can't get ahead, no matter what long, hard hours he may toil. In
fact, were he to but know it, he's now working harder and longer than
ever before, yet he's injecting less into the productive economy than
he did 25 years ago. Make no mistake: this is a direct consequence of government dereliction, incompetence and failure.

In Len Bayliss's 1995 publication, "Prosperity Mislaid," he cites New Zealand's self-defeating history of pathologically indolent smugness
when it comes to economic policy initiatives; all of it, he says, down
to:

"...government by the self-satisfied and the undereducated."

And it's no better now when we have government by the ignorant,
arrogant "I'm alright, fuck you, Jack" brigade, known to you as the
cynical, giggling, smirking, pampered-for-life lemons taking Buggin's
Turn on the Treasury benches.

On 5/29/2016 12:59 PM, Newsman wrote:

Ultimately a fruitless, futile debate.

There is no doubt that there is an issue with housing prices in Auckland but
why is Labour not holding the Council to account? I understand there is zoning
that prevents building any further than at present - does that really make >>> sense?

The scenario is that of a country and its major city in an economic
death spiral with a government and a council in an irreconcilable
conflict over who's responsible for what. As Spike Miligan once put
it, "The blame is spread so equally it doesn't notice."

More importantly, though, even if **self-generated** funds were
adequate and solutions were to be decided and implementation begun
tomorrow morning, the potential benefit would arrive **years** too
late. As they contemplate the widening, deepening economic sink-hole
confronting them, both government and city are now overhelmed by the
enormity of their failure competently to manage New Zealand's affairs.

But let's see how the current government's score-card is doing just
now:

1. Private debt out of control.

2. Reserve Bank hopelessly impotent, being hostage to its own
now-intractable high exchange value/low interest rates/low inflation/
declining labour productivity conundrum. No way out of it's own
Catch-22, not now, not ever..

3. Increase in rate of labour-productivity in steady, unbroken decline
since the early 1990's. It is now all but static.

4. Educational standards declining - (OECD comparative stats)

5. Woeful lack of **real** increases over time in GDP to fund
infrastructural development and inititatives.

6. Lack of skilled labour available to service #5.

7. The cynical vaunting of GDP numbers that, were they honest and
excluded **unproductive** economic activity, would be **negative.**

8. Insufficient affordable housing to accommodate New Zealanders, let
alone arriving immigrants, while immigration is not only only at an
all time high but increasing. This, mark you, while New Zealander's
have become increasingly centred on selling New Zealand both to both
foreigners and each other - i.e. **Zero** real GDP, but Bill English
simply can't get enough of it! Cloud-Cuckoo Land, the lot of it!

A dismal and unedifying record of governmental failure, I agree, but
it'll do for now, adding only this:

When we have a government minister trying to bribe its lower
socio-economic citizens to move to clapped-out flyblown
death-by-unemployment hicksvilles like Huntly so that she can free up
Auckland properties for uncontrolled numbers of wealthier immigrants
**to walk into**, you know the lunatics are in charge of the asylum
and there can be no possible redemption for New Zealand.

So seek to ask no further why your eponymous "hard-working" Kiwi finds
he can't get ahead, no matter what long, hard hours he may toil. In
fact, were he to but know it, he's now working harder and longer than
ever before, yet he's injecting less into the productive economy than
he did 25 years ago. Make no mistake: this is a direct consequence of
government dereliction, incompetence and failure.

In Len Bayliss's 1995 publication, "Prosperity Mislaid," he cites New
Zealand's self-defeating history of pathologically indolent smugness
when it comes to economic policy initiatives; all of it, he says, down
to:

"...government by the self-satisfied and the undereducated."

And it's no better now when we have government by the ignorant,
arrogant "I'm alright, fuck you, Jack" brigade, known to you as the
cynical, giggling, smirking, pampered-for-life lemons taking Buggin's
Turn on the Treasury benches.

And that is Liebors opinion.

Sadly they were not able to truly ruin the country last time they were
in power but if they can cobble together a union of the disorganised
they fel sure they can accomplish the wrecking of NZ.

On Fri, 27 May 2016 18:33:07 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
dot nz> wrote:

Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

but the stories keep coming

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/they-need-get-off-their-arse-evicted-auckland-tenant-slams-govt-over-handling-housing-crisis

This really does not sound credible does it?
Where is the evidence to support her position?
Is it reasonable to assume that 15 people between them cannot afford to pay the
rent and many other obvious questions!

Ultimately a fruitless, futile debate.

There is no doubt that there is an issue with housing prices in Auckland but >>why is Labour not holding the Council to account? I understand there is zoning
that prevents building any further than at present - does that really make >>sense?

The scenario is that of a country and its major city in an economic
death spiral with a government and a council in an irreconcilable
conflict over who's responsible for what. As Spike Miligan once put
it, "The blame is spread so equally it doesn't notice."

More importantly, though, even if **self-generated** funds were
adequate and solutions were to be decided and implementation begun
tomorrow morning, the potential benefit would arrive **years** too
late. As they contemplate the widening, deepening economic sink-hole >confronting them, both government and city are now overhelmed by the
enormity of their failure competently to manage New Zealand's affairs.

But let's see how the current government's score-card is doing just
now:

1. Private debt out of control.

2. Reserve Bank hopelessly impotent, being hostage to its own
now-intractable high exchange value/low interest rates/low inflation/ >declining labour productivity conundrum. No way out of it's own
Catch-22, not now, not ever.

3. Increase in rate of labour-productivity in steady, unbroken decline
since the early 1990's. It is now all but static.

4. Educational standards declining - (OECD comparative stats)

5. Woeful lack of **real** increases over time in GDP to fund
infrastructural development and inititatives.

6. Lack of skilled labour available to service #5.

7. The cynical vaunting of GDP numbers that, were they honest and
excluded **unproductive** economic activity, would be **negative.**

8. Insufficient affordable housing to accommodate New Zealanders, let
alone arriving immigrants, while immigration is not only only at an
all time high but increasing. This, mark you, while New Zealander's
have become increasingly centred on selling New Zealand both to both >foreigners and each other - i.e. **Zero** real GDP, but Bill English
simply can't get enough of it! Cloud-Cuckoo Land, the lot of it!

A dismal and unedifying record of governmental failure, I agree, but
it'll do for now, adding only this:

When we have a government minister trying to bribe its lower
socio-economic citizens to move to clapped-out flyblown
death-by-unemployment hicksvilles like Huntly so that she can free up >Auckland properties for uncontrolled numbers of wealthier immigrants
**to walk into**, you know the lunatics are in charge of the asylum
and there can be no possible redemption for New Zealand.

So seek to ask no further why your eponymous "hard-working" Kiwi finds
he can't get ahead, no matter what long, hard hours he may toil. In
fact, were he to but know it, he's now working harder and longer than
ever before, yet he's injecting less into the productive economy than
he did 25 years ago. Make no mistake: this is a direct consequence of >government dereliction, incompetence and failure.

In Len Bayliss's 1995 publication, "Prosperity Mislaid," he cites New >Zealand's self-defeating history of pathologically indolent smugness
when it comes to economic policy initiatives; all of it, he says, down
to:

"...government by the self-satisfied and the undereducated."

And it's no better now when we have government by the ignorant,
arrogant "I'm alright, fuck you, Jack" brigade, known to you as the
cynical, giggling, smirking, pampered-for-life lemons taking Buggin's
Turn on the Treasury benches.

For the time being, Labour may quietly relax and wallow in the
glorious schadenfreude of the current mess being made by an unheeding, doltish government made up from the Political Wing of the Tax
Avoidance Industry whose criminal inertia and crass poor judgements -
such as not only sitting on its hands while Auckland burns but then
pouring even more fuel on the fire - leave it with nothing whatever to commend it.

You know it and I know it. And so do they; and no amount of idiotic
gurning and smirking by Bill English, or last-throw-of-the-dice
bribing and rhetoric by Paula Bennett can make it otherwise. Indeed,
look no further than their panicky responses to the now-evident
consequences of their kow-towing to Power - both their local corporate puppet-masters and ruthlessly cold-blooded foreign moguls - that has
led to their societally corrosive and destructive stewardship of your country.

Proud of 'em, are you?

I have never said in this forum or elsewhere that the current government is

good as we deserve, or would like. The trouble is they are so much better

the alternative that we have little choice but to stick with them.

One comment
worth making, I believe, and I am possibly opening a can of worms, is that

current electoral system allows the selection of people that could not get a job at anywhere near the same pay rate outside of politics. I have no

but I would prefer paying fewer MPs much more but with a methodology that allows us to hold them to account without the three yearly circus - the

is those that would then have the power are no more able!

On 5/29/2016 2:50 PM, Newsman wrote:

For the time being, Labour may quietly relax and wallow in the
glorious schadenfreude of the current mess being made by an unheeding,
doltish government made up from the Political Wing of the Tax
Avoidance Industry whose criminal inertia and crass poor judgements -
such as not only sitting on its hands while Auckland burns but then
pouring even more fuel on the fire - leave it with nothing whatever to
commend it.

Two words.
Latest poll

On 2016-05-28, george152 <gblack@hnpl.net> wrote:

On 5/29/2016 2:50 PM, Newsman wrote:

For the time being, Labour may quietly relax and wallow in the
glorious schadenfreude of the current mess being made by an unheeding,
doltish government made up from the Political Wing of the Tax
Avoidance Industry whose criminal inertia and crass poor judgements -
such as not only sitting on its hands while Auckland burns but then
pouring even more fuel on the fire - leave it with nothing whatever to
commend it.

Two words.
Latest poll

All that proves is how stupid people are at large. A disater, political or >natural, takes a while to build to the stage where suddenly everyone gets
it.

On Fri, 27 May 2016 18:33:07 -0500, Tony <lizandtony at orcon dot net
dot nz> wrote:

Rich80105<rich80105@hotmail.com> wrote:

but the stories keep coming

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/they-need-get-off-their-arse-evicted-auckland-tenant-slams-govt-over-handling-housing-crisis

This really does not sound credible does it?
Where is the evidence to support her position?
Is it reasonable to assume that 15 people between them cannot afford to pay

rent and many other obvious questions!

Ultimately a fruitless, futile debate.

There is no doubt that there is an issue with housing prices in Auckland but >why is Labour not holding the Council to account? I understand there is

that prevents building any further than at present - does that really make >sense?

The scenario is that of a country and its major city in an economic
death spiral with a government and a council in an irreconcilable

conflict over who's responsible for what. As Spike Miligan once put
it, "The blame is spread so equally it doesn't notice."

More importantly, though, even if **self-generated** funds were
adequate and solutions were to be decided and implementation begun
tomorrow morning, the potential benefit would arrive **years** too
late. As they contemplate the widening, deepening economic sink-hole confronting them, both government and city are now overhelmed by the
enormity of their failure competently to manage New Zealand's affairs.

But let's see how the current government's score-card is doing just
now:

1. Private debt out of control.

2. Reserve Bank hopelessly impotent, being hostage to its own
now-intractable high exchange value/low interest rates/low inflation/ declining labour productivity conundrum. No way out of it's own
Catch-22, not now, not ever..

3. Increase in rate of labour-productivity in steady, unbroken decline
since the early 1990's. It is now all but static.

4. Educational standards declining - (OECD comparative stats)

5. Woeful lack of **real** increases over time in GDP to fund
infrastructural development and inititatives.

6. Lack of skilled labour available to service #5.

7. The cynical vaunting of GDP numbers that, were they honest and
excluded **unproductive** economic activity, would be **negative.**

8. Insufficient affordable housing to accommodate New Zealanders, let
alone arriving immigrants, while immigration is not only only at an
all time high but increasing. This, mark you, while New Zealander's
have become increasingly centred on selling New Zealand both to both foreigners and each other - i.e. **Zero** real GDP, but Bill English
simply can't get enough of it! Cloud-Cuckoo Land, the lot of it!

A dismal and unedifying record of governmental failure, I agree, but
it'll do for now, adding only this:

When we have a government minister trying to bribe its lower
socio-economic citizens to move to clapped-out flyblown
death-by-unemployment hicksvilles like Huntly so that she can free up Auckland properties for uncontrolled numbers of wealthier immigrants
**to walk into**, you know the lunatics are in charge of the asylum
and there can be no possible redemption for New Zealand.

So seek to ask no further why your eponymous "hard-working" Kiwi finds
he can't get ahead, no matter what long, hard hours he may toil. In
fact, were he to but know it, he's now working harder and longer than
ever before, yet he's injecting less into the productive economy than
he did 25 years ago. Make no mistake: this is a direct consequence of government dereliction, incompetence and failure.

In Len Bayliss's 1995 publication, "Prosperity Mislaid," he cites New Zealand's self-defeating history of pathologically indolent smugness
when it comes to economic policy initiatives; all of it, he says, down
to:

"...government by the self-satisfied and the undereducated."

And it's no better now when we have government by the ignorant,
arrogant "I'm alright, fuck you, Jack" brigade, known to you as the
cynical, giggling, smirking, pampered-for-life lemons taking Buggin's
Turn on the Treasury benches.

On Sun, 29 May 2016 00:59:48 GMT, slaybot@hotmail.com (Newsman) wrote:

(Correction:)

3. Increase in rate of labour-productivity in steady, unbroken decline >since the early 1990's. It is now all but static.

Should read: "Rate of labour-productivity in steady, unbroken decline
since the early 1990's. It is now all but static."

but the stories keep coming

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/they-need-get-off-their-arse-evicted-auckland-tenant-slams-govt-over-handling-housing-crisis

On 2016-05-28, george152 <gblack@hnpl.net> wrote:

On 5/29/2016 2:50 PM, Newsman wrote:

For the time being, Labour may quietly relax and wallow in the
glorious schadenfreude of the current mess being made by an unheeding,
doltish government made up from the Political Wing of the Tax
Avoidance Industry whose criminal inertia and crass poor judgements -
such as not only sitting on its hands while Auckland burns but then
pouring even more fuel on the fire - leave it with nothing whatever to
commend it.

Two words.
Latest poll

All that proves is how stupid people are at large. A disater, political or natural, takes a while to build to the stage where suddenly everyone gets
it.

On 5/28/2016 5:11 PM, Gordon wrote:

On 2016-05-28, george152 <gblack@hnpl.net> wrote:

On 5/29/2016 2:50 PM, Newsman wrote:

For the time being, Labour may quietly relax and wallow in the
glorious schadenfreude of the current mess being made by an unheeding, >>>> doltish government made up from the Political Wing of the Tax
Avoidance Industry whose criminal inertia and crass poor judgements - >>>> such as not only sitting on its hands while Auckland burns but then
pouring even more fuel on the fire - leave it with nothing whatever to >>>> commend it.

Two words.
Latest poll

All that proves is how stupid people are at large. A disater, political or >> natural, takes a while to build to the stage where suddenly everyone gets
it.

No. It is (in this case) a continuing trend.
Consider the Christchurch disaster (if you want a disaster) One day you
have Christchurch.
The next day you have a ruin and you have to rebuild.
Disasters are immediate

On Sun, 29 May 2016 08:08:21 +1200, george152 <gblack@hnpl.net> wrote:

On 5/28/2016 5:11 PM, Gordon wrote:

On 2016-05-28, george152 <gblack@hnpl.net> wrote:

On 5/29/2016 2:50 PM, Newsman wrote:

For the time being, Labour may quietly relax and wallow in the
glorious schadenfreude of the current mess being made by an unheeding, >>>>> doltish government made up from the Political Wing of the Tax
Avoidance Industry whose criminal inertia and crass poor judgements - >>>>> such as not only sitting on its hands while Auckland burns but then
pouring even more fuel on the fire - leave it with nothing whatever to >>>>> commend it.

Two words.
Latest poll

All that proves is how stupid people are at large. A disater, political or >>> natural, takes a while to build to the stage where suddenly everyone gets >>> it.

No. It is (in this case) a continuing trend.
Consider the Christchurch disaster (if you want a disaster) One day you >>have Christchurch.
The next day you have a ruin and you have to rebuild.
Disasters are immediate

Christchurch probably is a good example. Bob Parker got an eloection
boost from his television resenter skills, and we laughed at Gerry
Brownlee and his yellow jacket photo-ops, but they appeared to be
doing something. As time went on we learned that the insurance
companies were in charge - and they put global profits ahead of
action; the government took over priorities but didn't contribute much
money at all, Then Fletchers were given the contract to maximisr their
profit by managing progress to fit their supply line, and we now find
that they were sloppy in signing off too quickly for many property
owners (doubtless with the insurance companies happy to see that), and
we still years later have remedial action and also outstanding claims,
the government priorities being vanity projects instead of people, -
and the government still controlling as much as they can.

The disaster did indeed occur quite quickly - the rebuild and National >government interference and lack of support has been a second disaster
for many.