[continued from previous message]
euphemistically call: the popular vote hah!) would always be more
representative...
It's not the world that's fucked up, it's human nature - we're peak
thinkers, predators and toolmakers, but we haven't shucked off our
primal baggage from our primordial beginnings. That will come - the
danger is we will wipe ourselves out before we can defeat our
instincts and evolutionary survival traits.
### - i indeed meant the human race only, there's being nada wrong
whatsoever with nature and the rest of the universe, which appears
perfect, it's just the human race that's all fucked up ;)
Nature is perfectly in balance all the way down and up, through
regions and levels we can't even guess at let alone peer at. Nature
is the true god infinite and eternal.
### - if you 'need' there to be a 'god' then yes, Nature fits the bill >perfectly...
No I don't need there to be a god. I didn't mean that, I was alluding
to most people's desire for there to be a god when it's patently
obvious there isn't or if there is, it is unknowable and probably
uncaring and therefore the same as non-existent. I was simply saying
that it should be good enough for anyone to just look out and
comtemplate cosmos and look in and contemplate self and look around
and contemplate life and nature on terra - who *needs* a god?
the whole thing is... 'alive' - and does actually respond to us if we can
be bothered to communicate with it (not in rational terms but in >actual/practical terms...)
Well, the whole thing is us too - the parts are indivisible from the
whole and nothing is separate. I pride myself on always behaving as
rationally as I can, bearing in mind I'm just a recently evolved
primate with a lot of atavistic luggage to carry around - but I can't
see any way that I would still be alive if I didn't behave rationally
(except when I have well defined sessions where I let loose and have
some bubbly with dope and loosen up for a while and listen to loud
music and dance with my missus and so on). Are you trying to say that
one should occasionally regard nature in a non-analytical way? Just
sit back and don't think?
I'm always surprised that many people can't see this self-evident
fact. One needs a view of nature unburdened with sentimentality and
belief in tooth fairies and gods and all that junk - then reality
comes plainly into view.
### - that's totally correct imho... the human race is living in their
very own little bubble of self-constructed + invented reality which
they've superimposed upon the greater background reality that all the
rest
of nature is still in contact directly with... we're a maladjusted
species
heh ;)
Yes but we are a very, very young species. I collect trilobites -
they were around for 250 million years and went extinct (as all
species do, with the possible exception of man) in the Permian, so
long ago dinosaurs weren't even a figment of a dream of an
hallucination.
That was an old lineage when it went extinct, after quarter of a
billion years. We've been around for a quarter of one percent of that
time - we're pretty damn young and as for all young things, we have
the very best ahead of us.
But then again, I'm an incurable optimist.
### - in truth, there's only ever been the 'one' single species existing >here, the same single entity/life-form from which everything else has >evolved, ever more complex expressions of itself all the way up from
single cell to us - is pretty mind blowing really! - that we are all truly >related on this planet from the bottom to the top! (genetically speaking >we're 98% chimpanzee for example, which sounds cool until you consider
that we're also 50% cabbage haha...)
Well there's no proof and never will be that life didn't occur
spontaneously in several places on this big planet. Perhaps it did,
in which case we aren't all the offspring of some prime cell or living particle.
the whole world is thus rigged to work & function in a very certain + >>>>> specific way that ultimately stinks to high heaven...
You mean "human world" - nature generated our species and when we are >>>> extinct, whether it be in 50 years or 50,000,000 years, we won't be
missed by nature at all.
### - yes, the human world, the 'false' human world that flies in the
face
of nature as it really is and has always been... the human race not
giving
2-shits for how nature 'wants' to be, we've got our own ideas which,
coincidentally, results in us directly destroying nature! (i mean, what
more proof do we need that we need to change our ways??)
There's nothing false about anything. It is what it is, all the way.
Even lies are part of reality, the lie itself, not the subject matter
of the lie.
We're young species and like most young things, we're insanely
egocentric. Babies don't give a fuck about anyone or anything else
than themselves. We're a baby species. Give us time.
### - by false am referring to the 'humanly conceived' ideas of society
and civilisation; our own projected thoughts and ideas that we exclusively >relate to 'more' than we relate to the underlying reality that all the
rest of nature still retains an awareness of and relates directly to...
there is a difference...
like children, yes, we live in our own little version of the world and
dumbly (i.e., unquestioningly) relate exclusively to it in exactly the
same way a child relates to santa clause and the tooth fairy: no less than >just adult versions thereof!
I don't agree and nor would the simply amazing engineers who just
landed a "projection" of ourselves on Bennu, an asteroid, to see if it
carries the ingredients for life. It's on the way back now with its
payload. What interesting times we live in.
that that's the bit we haven't (as a species) quite grasped as yet, that
just because as adults we grew out of believing in santa, that didn't stop
us from still applying that very same formula/belief to everything else we >then do (iow: we didn't grow up at all lol, we merely exchanged santa and
the tooth fairy for something more adult to believe in instead hehe)
Oh come on, there are hundreds of millions of rational sceptics like
me who have no such beliefs and I reckon that of the religious and
pious, there is a sizable fraction which only believes such in public
or for networking purposes. I think what you've said is a big
generalisation - I never even believed in santa, even as a child I
knew it was bullshit.
There are many like me.
that IF there's a 'god' up there, he must be choking on the fumes of >>>>> it
all by now heh ;)
There's no "up" to start with. We're just a blip on the screen, an
outlier even in this pretty ordinary galaxy we're gravitationally
bound to. There definitely isn't a god in the way we imagine it to
be. Most people, deep deep down, know this.
### - was really only speaking rhetorically hehe, and just a little
humour
on my part with the emphasis on "IF" in capital letters hah, because
imho
we're totally alone with not even 'aliens' to help us hah! (fuckin'
aliens!? lol, riiiiight... and coz just look at the damnable state of us >>> and our world if *they've* been guiding us??? lol fuck off with their
aliens shit! - aliens?? riiiiight... ahaha... sorry folks but there
ain't
no stinkin' aliens! okaaaay? fuckin' aliens! gimmie a break!)
But you don't know if there are any aliens. No one does. That's an
opinion you're expressing not a fact. We don't have the facts.
### - am not saying/suggesting that life only exists here in the universe,
it would be ridiculous to think that, not to mention incredibly
egotistical as in when we used to believe the sun orbited the earth lol!
that if life exists 'here' then chances are it exists everywhere! but as
to 'aliens' furtively visiting us in their fuckin' flying saucers?? am
just not into all that haha (imho it's bs)
I think it was only Kenneth Arnold back in the day who coined the
term. Most of these objects don't look like saucers at all. And a
good proportion simply cannot be explained.
However, in a 15 billion year old universe, it's unlikely that other
lifeforms would attain the same level of technology or similar as us
in the same 10000 year timeframe. Vanishingly small probablity
actually when you do the math. They have either wiped themselves out,
gone extinct for other reasons, decided to stay in their solar system,
found the distances simply too vast or the challenges to prolonged
space travel (gamma rays, cosmic rays, time dilation etc etc) have
never been surmounted.
Who knows?
there IS however: Nature! which we're definitely a part of, and IS a
part
of us!
Everything is nature and nature is everything. To the bounds of the
observable universe (several trillion galaxies in a volume around 90
billion light years in diameter) and the probable infinitude
thereafter. Our actions are nature because of this - there's no
"outside" nature. This place has been destroyed countless times over
- the Permian Extinction, the extinction of the dinosaurs, the very
very early extinctions and the biggest of all 2500 million years ago
when our atmosphere was changed by blue green algae from lovely safe
non-oxidising methane and so on to fucking OXYGEN! Killed almost
entirely the life on terra, but paved the way for multicellular
organisms which paved the way for ....
US!
### - that's certainly one way of looking at it heh (the 'rationalised' >version i mean)
only, can 'life' (and all that entails/implies) really be rationalised in >such a manner without necessarily distorting the whole picture in the >process? any attempt to squeeze infinity into a box (no matter how big
that box) in order to examine it reducing it to something less than
infinity every time?
Look up the term "aleph null" some time. A guy called Cantor did
squeeze infinity into a "box" and then went on to define and prove
levels of infinity above simple infinity. All well proven,
reproducible science (math).
that doesn't stop us from trying though does it hah! and thus we've ended
up with one version after another of the damn tooth fairy!
Nope, one single version of infinity - which is that the concept of
infinity is just one in an infinite series of infiniities. Nothing to
do with fairies or any of that old campfire hogwash.
that there's obviously more (a whole heap more!) to life, the universe & >everything than reason alone can account for ;)
Wouldn't you say that mathematics is the epitome of reason? Well,
there is very little that math won't account for. Even the cadence of
music, the rhythm of poetry, the structure of prose, the brushstrokes
in painting and the forms of sculptures can be accounted for, or
described, by math.
I know what you're trying to say and I'm not being condescending in
saying that you maybe should try harder to say it in a way which is
clearer. But I know what it is, I think.
and we're in direct communication with it, only we don't really wanna
know
because it runs counter to all our own crappy ideas?
thus we feel, quite correctly, that something's missing from our lives,
and then dream of some kinda tooth fairy 'god' who looks after us albeit >>> from a great + unreachable distance... we 'intuit' the truth that Nature >>> is actually right there for us only we can't see it... (it's right under >>> our fuckin' noses and we're looking somewhere else completely??)
will we ever get back to it, to our real roots and some kinda genuine
sanity?
maybe... that is if we don't destroy everything & ourselves first in a
frenzy of self loathing and hatred because we're so estranged from
Reality!
maybe... but imho this really is our last chance!
What chance? Nature is purely cold equations and trigger events and
if we don't make it, we don't make it. That's life/nature.
### - our civilisations have, in that sense, been one experiment after the >other, all of which to date have failed for one reason or another... our >civilisation being the 23rd (that we know about) in a long succession of
such civilisations, the odds thus being currently 22 to 1 against ours
will be any more successful? (it's kinda like a tree that only grows up a >wall so far before it becomes top-heavy and falls over every time kinda >thing, and this is it's 23rd attempt!)
Where did you get that number from? I'm intrigued.
We're no big deal. Undoubtedly in all of those trillions of galaxies
each with huncreds of billions of suns and uncountable trillions of
planets, there is teeming life and some WILL make it.
### - true! our whole planet is just a single mote of cosmic dust with a >bunch of obscure germs growing on it lol (like fleas on a dog! haha!)
Far denser than fleas on a dog. Try the grains of sand on all the
beaches in the world a million times over - that's probably a good
start, unless the whole shebang is infinite, in which case it's not
even a start.
‘Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.’
Liber AL vel Legis, sub figura CCXX,
as delivered by XCIII=418 to DCLXVI
Aleister Crowley, Cairo, 1904
### - you 'do' understand that he (crowley) was a complete loon with a
huge chip on his shoulder, don't you thang?
I like this saying because it's libertarian. I don't ascribe to 19th
century theology and mysticism but I do understand that he had more
women in bed than can be good for one's health :)
The cradle rocks above an abyss, and common sense
tells us that our existence is but a brief crack of light
between two eternities of darkness.
VLADIMIR NABOKOV,
Speak, Memory: A Memoir
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