From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

Cut off from previous post...

“Although Castaneda’s concocted episodes often have something authentic about them, they trivialize Huichol, Yaqui or any Native American culture …” writes Fikes. “Those few kernels of truth Castaneda’s books contain are dissolved inside a
concoction full of spurious ingredients. Finding ethnographic truth in Castaneda’s books is almost as laborious as panning for gold.”

Even while debunking him, however, DeMille exhibited a fondness and a overarching respect for Carlos and his work. The continuing saga might have been the product of Carlos’s mind — but what a marvelous saga it was, what a valuable mind:

“Castaneda wasn’t a common con man, he lied to bring us the truth,” DeMille wrote in his first book, Castaneda’s Journey. “His stories are packed with truth, though they are not true stories, which he said they are. This is not your familiar
literary allegorist painlessly instructing his readers in philosophy. Nor is it
your fearless trustworthy ethnographer returned full of anecdotes from the forests of Ecuador. This is a sham-man bearing gifts, an ambiguous spellbinder dealing
simultaneously in contrary commodities—wisdom and deception.”

After the meeting in the student union, it would be four years before Gloria Garvin actually saw Carlos again face to face. Meanwhile, she read all his books, followed all the publicity, participated in the gossip that was rampant in the anthro
department at UCLA. Part of the gossip centered around Carlos’s very earthly reputation as a Lothario. Some even questioned whether he ever went to the desert at all — his wanderings, they said, were just a ruse to cover his bed hopping. Besides the
library worker — who, he would later claim, was energetically damaged during her own studies with Don Juan and would live with him in the Pandora compound for many years — Carlos was also involved with two women in the department, Regine Thal and Ann
Marie Carter, who would later change their names to Florinda Donner-Grau and Taisha Abelar. He also began seeing a married mother of two named Judy Guilford, who would later call herself Beverly Ames, and then eventually Carol Tiggs.

[Incorrect. Beverly Ames was not Carol Tiggs. Tiggs was born
Kathleen Pohlman, then became Elizabeth Austin (and Muni Alexander),
and of course also Carol Tiggs.]

Tiggs would become especially famous in Castaneda circles as a powerful sorceress who crossed over into the Second Attention for ten years and then returned to help guide Carlos and the others in his inner circle. Together, Tiggs, Donner-Grau and Abelar
would form the triumvirate of Witches who surrounded Carlos for the duration of
his life. All three would write books about their own, separate apprenticeships
with Don Juan.

[Not quite. Two of the witches wrote books. If Tiggs ever finished hers,
it was never published.]

Gloria talked to Carlos now and then by phone, exchanged the occasional letter,
but never saw him in person until one day, walking across campus during the winter quarter of 1973, she spotted him. Their eyes locked, he came over. He acted as if they’d
met only yesterday.

And so it was that Carlos and Gloria were sitting cross-legged on the beach at sunset, a blanket wrapped cozily around their shoulders. He had her hand clasped tenderly in both of his; he gazed deeply into her startling, gold-flecked blue eyes. “What
this entails is not a normal relationship,” he told her. “I want to take you with me but it won’t be as a normal man, because I am not a normal man any longer. I want to take care of you. I want you to be my wife. I’ve always
known that. Don Juan
has told me that. He’s seen you; you’ve hovered around me in dreams. He has
identified you as the woman who is going to be in the center of the hurricane with me. There are other winds in the north, south, east and west, and they are
very cold and
ruthless women, but you are not that way. I want to take care of you. I will do
everything in my power for you, because this is a commitment, one that has existed for a very long time. One that will exist beyond this lifetime.”

[Yeah, yeah. Another game Carlos repeated with many women.]

With that Carlos leaned over and kissed Gloria. It was an intense, directed sort of kiss; not passionate, not sloppy, not out of control, just very directed, she can’t describe it any other way. At that moment, the sounds of the beach grew silent. Time
stood still. She felt herself giving something away to him, something very deep, something of herself she’d never reclaim.

(To be continued...)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: thangolossus@gmail.com

On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 13:27:41 -0700 (PDT), "Jeremy H. Denisovan" <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> wrote:

Cut off from previous post...

“Although Castaneda’s concocted episodes often have something authentic about them, they trivialize Huichol, Yaqui or any Native American culture …” writes Fikes. “Those few kernels of truth Castaneda’s books contain are dissolved inside a

concoction full of spurious ingredients. Finding ethnographic truth in Castaneda’s books is
almost as laborious as panning for gold.”

Even while debunking him, however, DeMille exhibited a fondness and a overarching respect for Carlos and his work. The continuing saga might have been the product of Carlos’s mind — but what a marvelous saga it was, what a valuable mind:

“Castaneda wasn’t a common con man, he lied to bring us the truth,” DeMille wrote in his first book, Castaneda’s Journey. “His stories are packed with truth, though they are not true stories, which he said they are. This is not your familiar

literary allegorist painlessly instructing his readers in philosophy. Nor is it
your
fearless trustworthy ethnographer returned full of anecdotes from the forests of Ecuador. This is a sham-man bearing gifts, an ambiguous spellbinder dealing simultaneously in contrary commodities—wisdom and deception.”

After the meeting in the student union, it would be four years before Gloria Garvin actually saw Carlos again face to face. Meanwhile, she read all his books, followed all the publicity, participated in the gossip that was rampant in the anthro

department at UCLA. Part of the gossip centered around Carlos’s very earthly reputation
as a Lothario. Some even questioned whether he ever went to the desert at all — his wanderings, they said, were just a ruse to cover his bed hopping. Besides the library worker — who, he would later claim, was energetically damaged during her own
studies with Don Juan and would live with him in the Pandora compound for many years —
Carlos was also involved with two women in the department, Regine Thal and Ann Marie Carter, who would later change their names to Florinda Donner-Grau and Taisha Abelar. He also began seeing a married mother of two named Judy Guilford, who would later
call herself Beverly Ames, and then eventually Carol Tiggs.

[Incorrect. Beverly Ames was not Carol Tiggs. Tiggs was born
Kathleen Pohlman, then became Elizabeth Austin (and Muni Alexander),
and of course also Carol Tiggs.]

Tiggs would become especially famous in Castaneda circles as a powerful sorceress who crossed over into the Second Attention for ten years and then returned to help guide Carlos and the others in his inner circle. Together, Tiggs, Donner-Grau and Abelar

would form the triumvirate of Witches who surrounded Carlos for the duration
of his life. All three would write books about their own, separate apprenticeships with Don Juan.

[Not quite. Two of the witches wrote books. If Tiggs ever finished hers,
it was never published.]

Gloria talked to Carlos now and then by phone, exchanged the occasional letter, but never saw him in person until one day, walking across campus during

the winter quarter of 1973, she spotted him. Their eyes locked, he came over. He acted as if they’d
met only yesterday.

And so it was that Carlos and Gloria were sitting cross-legged on the beach at

sunset, a blanket wrapped cozily around their shoulders. He had her hand clasped tenderly in both of his; he gazed deeply into her startling, gold-flecked blue eyes. “What
this entails is not a normal relationship,” he told her. “I want to take you with
me but it won’t be as a normal man, because I am not a normal man any longer.
I want to take care of you. I want you to be my wife. I’ve always known that.
Don Juan has told me that. He’s seen you; you’ve hovered around me in dreams. He has
identified you as the woman who is going to be in the center of the hurricane with me. There
are other winds in the north, south, east and west, and they are very cold and ruthless women, but you are not that way. I want to take care of you. I will do
everything in my power for you, because this is a commitment, one that has existed for a very
long time. One that will exist beyond this lifetime.”

[Yeah, yeah. Another game Carlos repeated with many women.]

With that Carlos leaned over and kissed Gloria. It was an intense, directed sort of kiss; not passionate, not sloppy, not out of control, just very directed, she can’t describe it any other way. At that moment, the sounds of the beach grew silent.

Time stood still. She felt herself giving something away to him, something very deep, something of herself she’d never reclaim.

(To be continued...)

So did he fuck the women in his cult? If so, that's par for the
course - most of the sane cult leaders are doing it for money, sex or
power over individuals.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: gatekeeper@alt.dreams.castaneda

Hi visitor!

This group is dedicated to Carlos Castaneda legacy and teachings of his teacher
known as Don Juan.

This is unmoderated group, so there are lots of spam here.
There is a way to get rid of spam/off-topic/abuse in this group.
Use free moderated mailing list to get relevant only messages: http://insensciety.com/mailman/listinfo/alt.dreams.castaneda

Thank you and please keep posting to the group any information dedicated to the
group topic.

This reminder will be posted here weekly.

Group's Gatekeeper

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@nanashram.com

On Sat, 02 Sep 2017 20:39:58 +0100, Jeremy H. Denisovan <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> wrote:

“I am here to find out the truth,” Greg told the elderly gentleman in
his typically earnest but ironic style. “What I want to know is this:
Did he burn with the fire from within? Or did you burn him?”

The gentleman regarded Greg for several long moments—trying, no doubt,
to decide what to do. Greg seemed harmless enough. He was polite and
appeared sane. He was obviously deeply aggrieved. But what Greg was
saying, well—he’d seen and heard many things in his years in the
mortuary business, but this took it all: he’d never heard anything so ridiculous in his life. “Please sit down,” he said at last.

After ten minutes or so, a well-dressed, older woman appeared before
Greg and asked him to repeat his business. She listened intently,
nodding her head, wearing a sympathetic face. Until, that is, he got to
the part about “the fire from within.” She reared back her head and laughed out loud.

Greg looked at the woman and smiled. He raised his hands, palms up,
shrugged his shoulders. She was a tall, heavyset, regal woman, the model
of a family matriarch. She leaned down and put her arms around Greg,
gave him a tender, motherly hug. “He has gone to a better place,” she said, patting his back.

Greg stepped back from her embrace. “I know that,” he said, regarding
her quizzically. “But what I want to know is: which better place. Are
you sure you cremated him?”

“I watched it myself,” she said confidently.

“You’re positive?”

“His spirit is gone, baby.”

Greg thanked the woman, turned and went outside, to his car.

### - so the only ACTUAL PROOF of his cremation is the word of 2 *complete strangers* running an apparently private crematorium that didn't even have
a phone listing - and the words:

“I watched it myself,” she said confidently.

“You’re positive?”

“His spirit is gone, baby.”

???

riiiiiiiight... :)

am SO convinced by such 'overwhelmingly convincing' concrete... evidence!

iow: NO ACTUAL 'evidence' AT ALL???

LOL :D :D :D

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: allreadydun@gmail.com

don't be a dildo slider.
do you want to smell the
death certificate or what.
no one gets burn without the
death certificate. there are
rules Walter. (from the Big Lebowsky)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@nanashram.com

don't be a dildo slider.
do you want to smell the
death certificate or what.
no one gets burn without the
death certificate. there are
rules Walter. (from the Big Lebowsky)

### - rules for people 'actually' being cremated, yes!

but there's nothing there that proves there was even a body, let alone an actual cremation??

lawyer says one place, that turned out to be another place? (that's
weird...)

i dunno, this all started out as a bit of a wind-up/joke, but the more i
think about it now?

so who was the doc that 'signed' the cert? where & when was an official diagnosis for liver cancer ever made and by whom?? who says so other than
the lawyer??

syringes for diabetes is nada! plus greg could have been deliberately
'fed' ALL that 'convenient' crap once they realised he'd been spying on them/going through their trash?? (can't have been 'much' of a 'detective'
if he got caught by them??)

there's only rather vague 'circumstantial' evidence!

what people... said/assumed??

'wanted to believe'?

fuck me! :D

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 2:18:37 PM UTC-7, slider wrote:

don't be a dildo slider.
do you want to smell the
death certificate or what.
no one gets burn without the
death certificate. there are
rules Walter. (from the Big Lebowsky)

### - rules for people 'actually' being cremated, yes!

but there's nothing there that proves there was even a body, let alone an actual cremation??

lawyer says one place, that turned out to be another place? (that's
weird...)

i dunno, this all started out as a bit of a wind-up/joke, but the more i think about it now?

Exactly. The more you 'think' about something, the stupider things get.
That's a general rule about you, and it almost always applies. :)

so who was the doc that 'signed' the cert? where & when was an official diagnosis for liver cancer ever made and by whom?? who says so other than
the lawyer??

Another perfect example of how you find some idiotic contrarian
position and then become as big an asshole as possible about it -
trolling the shit out of everyone.

That is sooooo YOU. Don't you ever wonder why you're like that?

You don't even try to find out the facts - nor ever realize how
15 other assholes before you already went down the bogus road.

http://sustainedaction.org/Images_Documents/Castaneda_death_cert.htm

It is signed by a doctor - who could get in a lot of trouble for
lying on a death certificate.

They also found "alternative cures" for liver disease in the trash.
Carlos also VISIBLY had symptoms of advanced liver disease on video.
Ah, but he could have "faked that" somehow since he "knew" he was
being filmed, right? You wouldn't be the first clueless a-hole to
suggest that. Hell, just a few years ago even Cleargreen finally
admitted Carlos died (Reni did). But NOW you want to pull this shit? :)

One other piece of evidence I came across was in a Mexican interview
with "Dona Soledad" - who claimed Carlos TOLD her he had messed up
and was going to have kick the bucket.

Is any of that absolute proof? Well no, since there's no such thing.
Can you prove your own grandfather is really dead? Nope. Do I know
positively that my own father really died. No. I wasn't there.

syringes for diabetes is nada!

Before that ever happened, Castaneda had already stated to the
entire Sunday class that he had diabetes. He also mentioned it
in weird ways in certain interviews, once even trying to blame the
'inorganic beings' for causing his health disruptions with sugar.

You don't even pay attention. You just go blah blah blah blah
and troll people. Not just on this issue, either. On ANY issue. :)

plus greg could have been deliberately
'fed' ALL that 'convenient' crap once they realised he'd been spying on them/going through their trash?? (can't have been 'much' of a 'detective'
if he got caught by them??)

there's only rather vague 'circumstantial' evidence!

what people... said/assumed??

'wanted to believe'?

fuck me! :D

Consider yourself fucked.

If you 'want to believe' Carlos is 92 years old walking around
laughing and being all 'sorceric', feel free. That wouldn't be
any stupider than half the garbage you believe. :D

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@nanashram.com

On Sun, 03 Sep 2017 19:03:58 +0100, Jeremy H. Denisovan <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 2:18:37 PM UTC-7, slider wrote:

don't be a dildo slider.
do you want to smell the
death certificate or what.
no one gets burn without the
death certificate. there are
rules Walter. (from the Big Lebowsky)

### - rules for people 'actually' being cremated, yes!

but there's nothing there that proves there was even a body, let alone
an
actual cremation??

lawyer says one place, that turned out to be another place? (that's
weird...)

i dunno, this all started out as a bit of a wind-up/joke, but the more i
think about it now?

Exactly. The more you 'think' about something, the stupider things get. That's a general rule about you, and it almost always applies. :)

### - yeah well, when ya DON'T think, you might just end up in the fucking church of scientology, right? riiiiight... :)

so s'cuse me if i carry on 'thinking for myself' - okaaaay? :)))

so who was the doc that 'signed' the cert? where & when was an official
diagnosis for liver cancer ever made and by whom?? who says so other
than
the lawyer??

Another perfect example of how you find some idiotic contrarian
position and then become as big an asshole as possible about it -
trolling the shit out of everyone.

That is sooooo YOU. Don't you ever wonder why you're like that?

### - heh don't you EVER wonder HOW you ended up in MORE than ONE fucking religious CULT???

MORE THAN ONE!!! lol MORE than ONE?!?!

because you're a CUNT who DOESN'T think for himself! that's WHY!

baaaa baaaa baaaaa! 2 legs bad 4 legs good! bah! bah! :)

You don't even try to find out the facts - nor ever realize how
15 other assholes before you already went down the bogus road.

http://sustainedaction.org/Images_Documents/Castaneda_death_cert.htm

It is signed by a doctor - who could get in a lot of trouble for
lying on a death certificate.

### - woooo a LOT of trouble huh? (literally PISSING myself laffing!) well
then i guess THAT'S why there's never EVER been a FAKE death certificate
in the whole of fucking history then innit!

cc was worth MILLIONS! - ample funds to purchase/arrange just about
ANYTHING!

did anyone investigate the signatories on that 'very poor quality' DC??
(it's almost impossible to read!) who were they! did anyone even check it
out?? nope! :)

They also found "alternative cures" for liver disease in the trash.

### - that's not definitive proof per se! did it even have his name on it??

bet it didn't! plus you can buy that shit over the counter!

and in mexico you can buy virtually ANYTHING!

Carlos also VISIBLY had symptoms of advanced liver disease on video.
Ah, but he could have "faked that" somehow since he "knew" he was
being filmed, right?

### - that's right! the 'great detective' greg... got himself caught in
the act!

so maybe they took that as an omen to fuck off?

after all, it was handed to 'em on a fucking plate! :)

You wouldn't be the first clueless a-hole to
suggest that. Hell, just a few years ago even Cleargreen finally
admitted Carlos died (Reni did). But NOW you want to pull this shit? :)

### - but they denied it first right? no proof see? and then they finally
caved to documented shit just like everyone else! that doesn't PROVE
anything! so they were mugs like you! big deal!

One other piece of evidence I came across was in a Mexican interview
with "Dona Soledad" - who claimed Carlos TOLD her he had messed up
and was going to have kick the bucket.

### - so she actually existed then did she? i thought the WHOLE THING was
a crock??

well you couldn't trust her! (or any of THEM!) - besides, cc himself
intimated that he might die IF he fucked up! is THAT proof he actually
died too?? far from it! that's bs! sheer hearsay from her AND you!

Is any of that absolute proof? Well no, since there's no such thing.
Can you prove your own grandfather is really dead? Nope. Do I know
positively that my own father really died. No. I wasn't there.

### - i SAW my step-father's dead body personally! i held my mother's hand
AS she died! my grandparents were both irish and the irish make a big deal
of peeps dying - big party where EVERYONE sees the body! (probably just to
make SURE they're feckin' dead hahaha!)

who SAW cc's body?? anyone independent/outside of his inner circle? WHO
were the doctors involved! did anyone interview THEM?? let's SEE some
ACTUAL medical records of his diagnosis and treatment! why weren't they
tracked down/hacked and scrutinised??

sloppy! very sloppy! incredibly so!

syringes for diabetes is nada!

Before that ever happened, Castaneda had already stated to the
entire Sunday class that he had diabetes. He also mentioned it
in weird ways in certain interviews, once even trying to blame the
'inorganic beings' for causing his health disruptions with sugar.

### - yeah... maybe... but then he didn't fuckin' DIE from diabetes did
he!?!?

where's his genuine medical records even for THAT??

and YOU take the word of a known bullshitter as PROOF???

oh but MAYBE he WASN'T lying about THAT bit?!?

riiiight...

(am still waiting for 'something' jeremy... ANYTHING! nada so far!)

You don't even pay attention. You just go blah blah blah blah
and troll people. Not just on this issue, either. On ANY issue. :)

### - so i guess THAT'S absolute PROOF of HIS death too is it???

fuck off! you can't turn this back onto me!

prevaricate now and you're done for! :)))

plus greg could have been deliberately
'fed' ALL that 'convenient' crap once they realised he'd been spying on
them/going through their trash?? (can't have been 'much' of a
'detective'
if he got caught by them??)

there's only rather vague 'circumstantial' evidence!

what people... said/assumed??

'wanted to believe'?

fuck me! :D

Consider yourself fucked.

If you 'want to believe' Carlos is 92 years old walking around
laughing and being all 'sorceric', feel free. That wouldn't be
any stupider than half the garbage you believe. :D

### - well, he might well be gone by 'now' LOL, or maybe not!

YOU don't have any fucking CLUE either way besides what you've... heard/read?!?!

nada except what you WANT to BELIEVE?!?!

actually, just the fact that YOU believe it puts me right off!

you've NEVER been right yet!

and from your so-called 'evidence' i think i can see why!?! LOL!

'other' peeps 'also' considered/thought this 'might' be the case and
nothing more 'definitive' was ever dragged out?? actual medical records confirming illness etc etc? why NOT!

why, for instance, wasn't an expensive private investigator put on the
job??

very sloppy! completely careless!

FAR from impeccable behaviour! (duh!)

in which case YEAH! he COULD well be still walking around someplace for
all YOU actually know! even at 92!

mission accomplished! removed from being 'accountable' to the public eye!
(he made quite a big thing about all that! even told stories of people 'disappearing' and how difficult if sometimes was to arrange - especially
for men?)

as for me trolling (really fuckin' laffing!) YOU were the one trolling US
with crap in 'several parts' that no one's even interested in anymore -
except YOU?? - remember?

i just got tired of all your BS! is all!

and damn, lookee what came out! :))))

LOL how IRONIC if true? and YOU can't say for sure that it ISN'T true!

a 'terminal believer' huh?

what an arsehole! :))))

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: allreadydun@gmail.com

### - yeah... maybe... but then he didn't fuckin' DIE from diabetes did
he!?!?

what difference does it makes HOW he died?
he died because he fucking stopped breathing.
That's usually how it goes. You stop breathing,
your heart stops pumping and and and you fucking croak.
100 billion before you have done this. do you think
you or anyone else will be any different? Fuck no!

where's his genuine medical records even for THAT??

where are they? IF they were up your ass you'd know
where they were. What a dumb ass question. jessus.

and YOU take the word of a known bullshitter as PROOF???
the proof is in the death certificate dumb ass.

oh but MAYBE he WASN'T lying about THAT bit?!?

riiiight...

(am still waiting for 'something' jeremy... ANYTHING! nada so far!)
don't be a fucking retard. Give up the ghost my son.
What did the shrink say to the Pope. Give up the ghost my son. lol!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@nanashram.com

### - yeah... maybe... but then he didn't fuckin' DIE from diabetes did he!?!?

what difference does it makes HOW he died?
he died because he fucking stopped breathing.
That's usually how it goes. You stop breathing,
your heart stops pumping and and and you fucking croak.
100 billion before you have done this. do you think
you or anyone else will be any different? Fuck no!

where's his genuine medical records even for THAT??

where are they? IF they were up your ass you'd know
where they were. What a dumb ass question. jessus.

and YOU take the word of a known bullshitter as PROOF???
the proof is in the death certificate dumb ass.

oh but MAYBE he WASN'T lying about THAT bit?!?

riiiight...

(am still waiting for 'something' jeremy... ANYTHING! nada so far!)
don't be a fucking retard. Give up the ghost my son.
What did the shrink say to the Pope. Give up the ghost my son. lol!

### - i'll let it go if jeremy promises NOT to post... part 6??

(cracking up laffing...) :D

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: allreadydun@gmail.com

### - i'll let it go if jeremy promises NOT to post... part 6??

what's next for you then? going to cleargreen
events and doing magical passes ?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@nanashram.com

still hazy after all these years wrote...

### - i'll let it go if jeremy promises NOT to post... part 6??

what's next for you then? going to cleargreen
events and doing magical passes ?

### - if jeremy wants to keep raking up this shit then so will i (was the point)

am bored with his 'infantile hatred' (someone needed to SAY that btw!)

:)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

On Sunday, September 3, 2017 at 3:36:39 PM UTC-7, slider wrote:

On Sun, 03 Sep 2017 19:03:58 +0100, Jeremy H. Denisovan
wrote:

On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 2:18:37 PM UTC-7, slider wrote:

don't be a dildo slider.
do you want to smell the
death certificate or what.
no one gets burn without the
death certificate. there are
rules Walter. (from the Big Lebowsky)

### - rules for people 'actually' being cremated, yes!

but there's nothing there that proves there was even a body, let alone
an
actual cremation??

lawyer says one place, that turned out to be another place? (that's
weird...)

i dunno, this all started out as a bit of a wind-up/joke, but the more i >> think about it now?

Exactly. The more you 'think' about something, the stupider things get. That's a general rule about you, and it almost always applies. :)

### - yeah well, when ya DON'T think, you might just end up in the fucking church of scientology, right? riiiiight... :)

so s'cuse me if i carry on 'thinking for myself' - okaaaay? :)))

so who was the doc that 'signed' the cert? where & when was an official
diagnosis for liver cancer ever made and by whom?? who says so other
than
the lawyer??

Another perfect example of how you find some idiotic contrarian
position and then become as big an asshole as possible about it -
trolling the shit out of everyone.

That is sooooo YOU. Don't you ever wonder why you're like that?

### - heh don't you EVER wonder HOW you ended up in MORE than ONE fucking religious CULT???

MORE THAN ONE!!! lol MORE than ONE?!?!

because you're a CUNT who DOESN'T think for himself! that's WHY!

baaaa baaaa baaaaa! 2 legs bad 4 legs good! bah! bah! :)

You don't even try to find out the facts - nor ever realize how
15 other assholes before you already went down the bogus road.

http://sustainedaction.org/Images_Documents/Castaneda_death_cert.htm

It is signed by a doctor - who could get in a lot of trouble for
lying on a death certificate.

### - woooo a LOT of trouble huh? (literally PISSING myself laffing!) well then i guess THAT'S why there's never EVER been a FAKE death certificate
in the whole of fucking history then innit!

cc was worth MILLIONS! - ample funds to purchase/arrange just about
ANYTHING!

did anyone investigate the signatories on that 'very poor quality' DC??
(it's almost impossible to read!) who were they! did anyone even check it out?? nope! :)

They also found "alternative cures" for liver disease in the trash.

### - that's not definitive proof per se! did it even have his name on it??

bet it didn't! plus you can buy that shit over the counter!

and in mexico you can buy virtually ANYTHING!

Carlos also VISIBLY had symptoms of advanced liver disease on video.
Ah, but he could have "faked that" somehow since he "knew" he was
being filmed, right?

### - that's right! the 'great detective' greg... got himself caught in
the act!

so maybe they took that as an omen to fuck off?

after all, it was handed to 'em on a fucking plate! :)

You wouldn't be the first clueless a-hole to
suggest that. Hell, just a few years ago even Cleargreen finally
admitted Carlos died (Reni did). But NOW you want to pull this shit? :)

### - but they denied it first right? no proof see? and then they finally caved to documented shit just like everyone else! that doesn't PROVE anything! so they were mugs like you! big deal!

One other piece of evidence I came across was in a Mexican interview
with "Dona Soledad" - who claimed Carlos TOLD her he had messed up
and was going to have kick the bucket.

### - so she actually existed then did she? i thought the WHOLE THING was
a crock??

well you couldn't trust her! (or any of THEM!) - besides, cc himself intimated that he might die IF he fucked up! is THAT proof he actually
died too?? far from it! that's bs! sheer hearsay from her AND you!

Is any of that absolute proof? Well no, since there's no such thing.
Can you prove your own grandfather is really dead? Nope. Do I know positively that my own father really died. No. I wasn't there.

### - i SAW my step-father's dead body personally! i held my mother's hand
AS she died! my grandparents were both irish and the irish make a big deal
of peeps dying - big party where EVERYONE sees the body! (probably just to make SURE they're feckin' dead hahaha!)

who SAW cc's body?? anyone independent/outside of his inner circle? WHO
were the doctors involved! did anyone interview THEM?? let's SEE some
ACTUAL medical records of his diagnosis and treatment! why weren't they tracked down/hacked and scrutinised??

sloppy! very sloppy! incredibly so!

syringes for diabetes is nada!

Before that ever happened, Castaneda had already stated to the
entire Sunday class that he had diabetes. He also mentioned it
in weird ways in certain interviews, once even trying to blame the 'inorganic beings' for causing his health disruptions with sugar.

### - yeah... maybe... but then he didn't fuckin' DIE from diabetes did he!?!?

where's his genuine medical records even for THAT??

and YOU take the word of a known bullshitter as PROOF???

oh but MAYBE he WASN'T lying about THAT bit?!?

riiiight...

(am still waiting for 'something' jeremy... ANYTHING! nada so far!)

You don't even pay attention. You just go blah blah blah blah
and troll people. Not just on this issue, either. On ANY issue. :)

### - so i guess THAT'S absolute PROOF of HIS death too is it???

fuck off! you can't turn this back onto me!

prevaricate now and you're done for! :)))

plus greg could have been deliberately
'fed' ALL that 'convenient' crap once they realised he'd been spying on
them/going through their trash?? (can't have been 'much' of a
'detective'
if he got caught by them??)

there's only rather vague 'circumstantial' evidence!

what people... said/assumed??

'wanted to believe'?

fuck me! :D

Consider yourself fucked.

If you 'want to believe' Carlos is 92 years old walking around
laughing and being all 'sorceric', feel free. That wouldn't be
any stupider than half the garbage you believe. :D

### - well, he might well be gone by 'now' LOL, or maybe not!

YOU don't have any fucking CLUE either way besides what you've... heard/read?!?!

nada except what you WANT to BELIEVE?!?!

actually, just the fact that YOU believe it puts me right off!

you've NEVER been right yet!

and from your so-called 'evidence' i think i can see why!?! LOL!

'other' peeps 'also' considered/thought this 'might' be the case and
nothing more 'definitive' was ever dragged out?? actual medical records confirming illness etc etc? why NOT!

why, for instance, wasn't an expensive private investigator put on the
job??

very sloppy! completely careless!

FAR from impeccable behaviour! (duh!)

in which case YEAH! he COULD well be still walking around someplace for
all YOU actually know! even at 92!

mission accomplished! removed from being 'accountable' to the public eye!
(he made quite a big thing about all that! even told stories of people 'disappearing' and how difficult if sometimes was to arrange - especially
for men?)

as for me trolling (really fuckin' laffing!) YOU were the one trolling US with crap in 'several parts' that no one's even interested in anymore - except YOU?? - remember?

i just got tired of all your BS! is all!

and damn, lookee what came out! :))))

LOL how IRONIC if true? and YOU can't say for sure that it ISN'T true!

a 'terminal believer' huh?

what an arsehole! :))))

Even when totally wrong about something, this is how you respond.

You've been shown half-a-dozen pieces of strong evidence CC is dead.
On your side, you've provided zero evidence he's still alive.
And yet you'll still argue about it, abusively, 'to the death'.

That's literally: the definition of who Slider is as a man.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.org

On Mon, 04 Sep 2017 21:42:43 +0100, Jeremy H. Denisovan <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, September 3, 2017 at 3:36:39 PM UTC-7, slider wrote:

On Sun, 03 Sep 2017 19:03:58 +0100, Jeremy H. Denisovan
wrote:

On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 2:18:37 PM UTC-7, slider wrote:

don't be a dildo slider.
do you want to smell the
death certificate or what.
no one gets burn without the
death certificate. there are
rules Walter. (from the Big Lebowsky)

### - rules for people 'actually' being cremated, yes!

but there's nothing there that proves there was even a body, let

alone

an
actual cremation??

lawyer says one place, that turned out to be another place? (that's
weird...)

i dunno, this all started out as a bit of a wind-up/joke, but the

more i

think about it now?

Exactly. The more you 'think' about something, the stupider things

get.

That's a general rule about you, and it almost always applies. :)

### - yeah well, when ya DON'T think, you might just end up in the
fucking
church of scientology, right? riiiiight... :)

so s'cuse me if i carry on 'thinking for myself' - okaaaay? :)))

so who was the doc that 'signed' the cert? where & when was an

official

diagnosis for liver cancer ever made and by whom?? who says so other
than
the lawyer??

Another perfect example of how you find some idiotic contrarian
position and then become as big an asshole as possible about it -
trolling the shit out of everyone.

That is sooooo YOU. Don't you ever wonder why you're like that?

### - heh don't you EVER wonder HOW you ended up in MORE than ONE
fucking
religious CULT???

MORE THAN ONE!!! lol MORE than ONE?!?!

because you're a CUNT who DOESN'T think for himself! that's WHY!

baaaa baaaa baaaaa! 2 legs bad 4 legs good! bah! bah! :)

You don't even try to find out the facts - nor ever realize how
15 other assholes before you already went down the bogus road.

http://sustainedaction.org/Images_Documents/Castaneda_death_cert.htm

It is signed by a doctor - who could get in a lot of trouble for
lying on a death certificate.

### - woooo a LOT of trouble huh? (literally PISSING myself laffing!)
well
then i guess THAT'S why there's never EVER been a FAKE death certificate
in the whole of fucking history then innit!

cc was worth MILLIONS! - ample funds to purchase/arrange just about
ANYTHING!

did anyone investigate the signatories on that 'very poor quality' DC??
(it's almost impossible to read!) who were they! did anyone even check
it
out?? nope! :)

They also found "alternative cures" for liver disease in the trash.

### - that's not definitive proof per se! did it even have his name on
it??

bet it didn't! plus you can buy that shit over the counter!

and in mexico you can buy virtually ANYTHING!

Carlos also VISIBLY had symptoms of advanced liver disease on video.
Ah, but he could have "faked that" somehow since he "knew" he was
being filmed, right?

### - that's right! the 'great detective' greg... got himself caught in
the act!

so maybe they took that as an omen to fuck off?

after all, it was handed to 'em on a fucking plate! :)

You wouldn't be the first clueless a-hole to
suggest that. Hell, just a few years ago even Cleargreen finally
admitted Carlos died (Reni did). But NOW you want to pull this shit?

:)

### - but they denied it first right? no proof see? and then they
finally
caved to documented shit just like everyone else! that doesn't PROVE
anything! so they were mugs like you! big deal!

One other piece of evidence I came across was in a Mexican interview
with "Dona Soledad" - who claimed Carlos TOLD her he had messed up
and was going to have kick the bucket.

### - so she actually existed then did she? i thought the WHOLE THING
was
a crock??

well you couldn't trust her! (or any of THEM!) - besides, cc himself
intimated that he might die IF he fucked up! is THAT proof he actually
died too?? far from it! that's bs! sheer hearsay from her AND you!

Is any of that absolute proof? Well no, since there's no such thing.
Can you prove your own grandfather is really dead? Nope. Do I know
positively that my own father really died. No. I wasn't there.

### - i SAW my step-father's dead body personally! i held my mother's
hand
AS she died! my grandparents were both irish and the irish make a big
deal
of peeps dying - big party where EVERYONE sees the body! (probably just
to
make SURE they're feckin' dead hahaha!)

who SAW cc's body?? anyone independent/outside of his inner circle? WHO
were the doctors involved! did anyone interview THEM?? let's SEE some
ACTUAL medical records of his diagnosis and treatment! why weren't they
tracked down/hacked and scrutinised??

sloppy! very sloppy! incredibly so!

syringes for diabetes is nada!

Before that ever happened, Castaneda had already stated to the
entire Sunday class that he had diabetes. He also mentioned it
in weird ways in certain interviews, once even trying to blame the
'inorganic beings' for causing his health disruptions with sugar.

### - yeah... maybe... but then he didn't fuckin' DIE from diabetes did
he!?!?

where's his genuine medical records even for THAT??

and YOU take the word of a known bullshitter as PROOF???

oh but MAYBE he WASN'T lying about THAT bit?!?

riiiight...

(am still waiting for 'something' jeremy... ANYTHING! nada so far!)

You don't even pay attention. You just go blah blah blah blah
and troll people. Not just on this issue, either. On ANY issue. :)

### - so i guess THAT'S absolute PROOF of HIS death too is it???

fuck off! you can't turn this back onto me!

prevaricate now and you're done for! :)))

plus greg could have been deliberately
'fed' ALL that 'convenient' crap once they realised he'd been spying

on

them/going through their trash?? (can't have been 'much' of a
'detective'
if he got caught by them??)

there's only rather vague 'circumstantial' evidence!

what people... said/assumed??

'wanted to believe'?

fuck me! :D

Consider yourself fucked.

If you 'want to believe' Carlos is 92 years old walking around
laughing and being all 'sorceric', feel free. That wouldn't be
any stupider than half the garbage you believe. :D

### - well, he might well be gone by 'now' LOL, or maybe not!

YOU don't have any fucking CLUE either way besides what you've...
heard/read?!?!

nada except what you WANT to BELIEVE?!?!

actually, just the fact that YOU believe it puts me right off!

you've NEVER been right yet!

and from your so-called 'evidence' i think i can see why!?! LOL!

'other' peeps 'also' considered/thought this 'might' be the case and
nothing more 'definitive' was ever dragged out?? actual medical records
confirming illness etc etc? why NOT!

why, for instance, wasn't an expensive private investigator put on the
job??

very sloppy! completely careless!

FAR from impeccable behaviour! (duh!)

in which case YEAH! he COULD well be still walking around someplace for
all YOU actually know! even at 92!

mission accomplished! removed from being 'accountable' to the public
eye!
(he made quite a big thing about all that! even told stories of people
'disappearing' and how difficult if sometimes was to arrange -
especially
for men?)

as for me trolling (really fuckin' laffing!) YOU were the one trolling
US
with crap in 'several parts' that no one's even interested in anymore -
except YOU?? - remember?

i just got tired of all your BS! is all!

and damn, lookee what came out! :))))

LOL how IRONIC if true? and YOU can't say for sure that it ISN'T true!

a 'terminal believer' huh?

what an arsehole! :))))

Even when totally wrong about something, this is how you respond.

You've been shown half-a-dozen pieces of strong evidence CC is dead.
On your side, you've provided zero evidence he's still alive.
And yet you'll still argue about it, abusively, 'to the death'.

That's literally: the definition of who Slider is as a man.

### - (smile...) you should try and see it from my pov occasionally?
(something other than just your OWN all the time, i mean...) and you might realise that ALL i've ever HAD over here across the pond all along re cc
is, for example, hearsay?? other people's WORD for everything! no
first-hand 'proof' of 'anything' per se! - besides which, the only 'hard' (i.e., convincing) evidence there IS that DC!

'everything' else IS merely circumstantial and 'could' have just as easily
been planted/engineered by an already well known professional trickster!
iow: everything else you've listed could just as easily be construed as a deliberate con-job to misdirect 'just as much' as being evidence for
someone's demise!?! (a false paper trail kinda thing...)

e.g., he also told stories about his 'own' mentor deliberately looking old
and sick?

so maybe the apple didn't fall too far from the tree!?! (really laffing!)

fortunately, for you, dr duenas does indeed appear to be genuine?

https://www.itriagehealth.com/doctor/angelica-duenas-410420/background

but then who's to say he didn't somehow just con her too?

it gets very difficult at 'that' point admittedly, but it's not totally impossible!

doctors have been conned before? or, like some episode from columbo; was
maybe even complicit!

i'd need to see/examine records (both medical & financial) going right
back to confirm/deny all that?

how long was she his doctor? did he have 'other' doctors? - records please!

more shocking to me perhaps, is that dona soledad AND la gorda were 'real' people???

so maybe the others (of that team) were too? it certainly increases that likelihood!

and if THAT'S true, then what else was also maybe true! :)

lol you being pissed as all-get-out is no proof of 'anything' except your
'own' madness!

:D

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: thangolossus@gmail.com

On Mon, 04 Sep 2017 21:31:25 +0100, slider <slider@nanashram.com>
wrote:

still hazy after all these years wrote...

### - i'll let it go if jeremy promises NOT to post... part 6??

what's next for you then? going to cleargreen
events and doing magical passes ?

### - if jeremy wants to keep raking up this shit then so will i (was the >point)

am bored with his 'infantile hatred' (someone needed to SAY that btw!)

*You're* the hater, cunt. And infantile insults infants in your case.
You are totally and comprehensively incapable of reason and logic. You
are beyond buffoon. And you are so consumed with your hatred of the
world and its inhabitants due to your unhappiness with your own life
(probably due to laziness) that you inflict your meanness and sarcasm
on every person you can. No wonder you are marooned in life without a liferaft, friendless and alone. You need to WAKE UP to yourself.

:)

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@nanashram.com

On Tue, 05 Sep 2017 01:37:21 +0100, Jeremy H. Denisovan <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> wrote:

The thing that's so obnoxious about you, Slider, is that you have
no real connection to Castaneda at all, yet you ensconced yourself
here for 20 years to badger the shit out of people who did.

### - i'd literally been on the net for only 2/3 weeks tops with my first
ever net-worthy pc computer, it was all brand new to me, looking around
trying to understand it etc, was surprised/curious to find cleargreen
(didn't even know it existed!) and in week 1 met some dude in some
cc-related chatroom who invited me here, ok? - come on over to 'our'
place! :)

studied this place for about 10 days or so by reading up old posts to come
up to speed before saying hello, and was already familiar enough with his writings to understand the lingo... no one said it was exclusively for
cc-only related peeps and associates, so don't pull that shit on me now
like you're more important than anyone else here coz you actually met
him?? don't flatter yourself! plus how typical of you to accuse others of
what you yourself are? obnoxious! totally! and with nothing whatever to
even back it up!

For those who got deeply sucked into Castaneda's game, it's
important to be able to figure out what really happened.
Most people are not smart enough to understand it all
even when I paint the picture in front of their face.
It doesn't help when you try once again to blur it.

### - yeah right... some *self-appointed* anti-messiah! who took it upon 'himself' to graphically 'explain' it to others, even if he had to break
their heads to do it???

fuck off! you're a caveman! a lout! a liar! AND an obsessive nut to boot!
a real trouble maker!

Most people cannot believe things like this really happen.
It is literally easier for people to believe strange cult lies
than it is to for them to comprehend the reality behind them.
Weird, huh? :)

### - not so weird in a world full of FOOLS like you?!?!

and is rather par for the course i would have said hah! it's expected!
(are you really that naive??)

in fact, half the reason for my remaining here so long was only to protect people from YOU!

you gave me a job my nature was totally suited to! 'automatically'
responded to!

YOU'RE the reason am still here! LOL LOL LOL :))))

(in truth, a lot of peeps here were fairly damaged by everything that went down, and YOU weren't helping!?! accordingly, as a friend, i think i did
my bit to ease-up quite a few of them, tucked them back in (where they
were falling out...) and sent them on their merry way... because that's
what 'friends' do!)

you're the ONLY one left that's still all fucked up! (laughing...)

only i don't think you can BE repaired! probably because you were always
fucked up anyway?

there's something wrong with you jeremy! you're NOT playing with a full
deck!

you have a very violent and malevolent streak! you don't care who you hurt!

of course, try though you might you've never been ABLE to even get
anywhere NEAR me, and that's precisely what pisses you off! (gud!) i've
had to deal with cavemen before and you're a child by comparison! just
some puffed up little prick with a wounded pride, awwww shame!

fuck you! :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: thangolossus@gmail.com

On Mon, 4 Sep 2017 13:42:43 -0700 (PDT), "Jeremy H. Denisovan" <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, September 3, 2017 at 3:36:39 PM UTC-7, slider wrote:

On Sun, 03 Sep 2017 19:03:58 +0100, Jeremy H. Denisovan
wrote:

On Saturday, September 2, 2017 at 2:18:37 PM UTC-7, slider wrote:

don't be a dildo slider.
do you want to smell the
death certificate or what.
no one gets burn without the
death certificate. there are
rules Walter. (from the Big Lebowsky)

### - rules for people 'actually' being cremated, yes!

but there's nothing there that proves there was even a body, let alone
an
actual cremation??

lawyer says one place, that turned out to be another place? (that's
weird...)

i dunno, this all started out as a bit of a wind-up/joke, but the more i >> >> think about it now?

Exactly. The more you 'think' about something, the stupider things get.
That's a general rule about you, and it almost always applies. :)

### - yeah well, when ya DON'T think, you might just end up in the fucking >> church of scientology, right? riiiiight... :)

so s'cuse me if i carry on 'thinking for myself' - okaaaay? :)))

so who was the doc that 'signed' the cert? where & when was an official >> >> diagnosis for liver cancer ever made and by whom?? who says so other
than
the lawyer??

Another perfect example of how you find some idiotic contrarian
position and then become as big an asshole as possible about it -
trolling the shit out of everyone.

That is sooooo YOU. Don't you ever wonder why you're like that?

### - heh don't you EVER wonder HOW you ended up in MORE than ONE fucking
religious CULT???

MORE THAN ONE!!! lol MORE than ONE?!?!

because you're a CUNT who DOESN'T think for himself! that's WHY!

baaaa baaaa baaaaa! 2 legs bad 4 legs good! bah! bah! :)

You don't even try to find out the facts - nor ever realize how
15 other assholes before you already went down the bogus road.

http://sustainedaction.org/Images_Documents/Castaneda_death_cert.htm

It is signed by a doctor - who could get in a lot of trouble for
lying on a death certificate.

### - woooo a LOT of trouble huh? (literally PISSING myself laffing!) well >> then i guess THAT'S why there's never EVER been a FAKE death certificate
in the whole of fucking history then innit!

cc was worth MILLIONS! - ample funds to purchase/arrange just about
ANYTHING!

did anyone investigate the signatories on that 'very poor quality' DC??
(it's almost impossible to read!) who were they! did anyone even check it
out?? nope! :)

They also found "alternative cures" for liver disease in the trash.

### - that's not definitive proof per se! did it even have his name on it?? >>
bet it didn't! plus you can buy that shit over the counter!

and in mexico you can buy virtually ANYTHING!

Carlos also VISIBLY had symptoms of advanced liver disease on video.
Ah, but he could have "faked that" somehow since he "knew" he was
being filmed, right?

### - that's right! the 'great detective' greg... got himself caught in
the act!

so maybe they took that as an omen to fuck off?

after all, it was handed to 'em on a fucking plate! :)

You wouldn't be the first clueless a-hole to
suggest that. Hell, just a few years ago even Cleargreen finally
admitted Carlos died (Reni did). But NOW you want to pull this shit? :)

### - but they denied it first right? no proof see? and then they finally
caved to documented shit just like everyone else! that doesn't PROVE
anything! so they were mugs like you! big deal!

One other piece of evidence I came across was in a Mexican interview
with "Dona Soledad" - who claimed Carlos TOLD her he had messed up
and was going to have kick the bucket.

### - so she actually existed then did she? i thought the WHOLE THING was
a crock??

well you couldn't trust her! (or any of THEM!) - besides, cc himself
intimated that he might die IF he fucked up! is THAT proof he actually
died too?? far from it! that's bs! sheer hearsay from her AND you!

Is any of that absolute proof? Well no, since there's no such thing.
Can you prove your own grandfather is really dead? Nope. Do I know
positively that my own father really died. No. I wasn't there.

### - i SAW my step-father's dead body personally! i held my mother's hand >> AS she died! my grandparents were both irish and the irish make a big deal >> of peeps dying - big party where EVERYONE sees the body! (probably just to >> make SURE they're feckin' dead hahaha!)

who SAW cc's body?? anyone independent/outside of his inner circle? WHO
were the doctors involved! did anyone interview THEM?? let's SEE some
ACTUAL medical records of his diagnosis and treatment! why weren't they
tracked down/hacked and scrutinised??

sloppy! very sloppy! incredibly so!

syringes for diabetes is nada!

Before that ever happened, Castaneda had already stated to the
entire Sunday class that he had diabetes. He also mentioned it
in weird ways in certain interviews, once even trying to blame the
'inorganic beings' for causing his health disruptions with sugar.

### - yeah... maybe... but then he didn't fuckin' DIE from diabetes did
he!?!?

where's his genuine medical records even for THAT??

and YOU take the word of a known bullshitter as PROOF???

oh but MAYBE he WASN'T lying about THAT bit?!?

riiiight...

(am still waiting for 'something' jeremy... ANYTHING! nada so far!)

You don't even pay attention. You just go blah blah blah blah
and troll people. Not just on this issue, either. On ANY issue. :)

### - so i guess THAT'S absolute PROOF of HIS death too is it???

fuck off! you can't turn this back onto me!

prevaricate now and you're done for! :)))

plus greg could have been deliberately
'fed' ALL that 'convenient' crap once they realised he'd been spying on >> >> them/going through their trash?? (can't have been 'much' of a
'detective'
if he got caught by them??)

there's only rather vague 'circumstantial' evidence!

what people... said/assumed??

'wanted to believe'?

fuck me! :D

Consider yourself fucked.

If you 'want to believe' Carlos is 92 years old walking around
laughing and being all 'sorceric', feel free. That wouldn't be
any stupider than half the garbage you believe. :D

### - well, he might well be gone by 'now' LOL, or maybe not!

YOU don't have any fucking CLUE either way besides what you've...
heard/read?!?!

nada except what you WANT to BELIEVE?!?!

actually, just the fact that YOU believe it puts me right off!

you've NEVER been right yet!

and from your so-called 'evidence' i think i can see why!?! LOL!

'other' peeps 'also' considered/thought this 'might' be the case and
nothing more 'definitive' was ever dragged out?? actual medical records
confirming illness etc etc? why NOT!

why, for instance, wasn't an expensive private investigator put on the
job??

very sloppy! completely careless!

FAR from impeccable behaviour! (duh!)

in which case YEAH! he COULD well be still walking around someplace for
all YOU actually know! even at 92!

mission accomplished! removed from being 'accountable' to the public eye!
(he made quite a big thing about all that! even told stories of people
'disappearing' and how difficult if sometimes was to arrange - especially
for men?)

as for me trolling (really fuckin' laffing!) YOU were the one trolling US
with crap in 'several parts' that no one's even interested in anymore -
except YOU?? - remember?

i just got tired of all your BS! is all!

and damn, lookee what came out! :))))

LOL how IRONIC if true? and YOU can't say for sure that it ISN'T true!

a 'terminal believer' huh?

what an arsehole! :))))

Even when totally wrong about something, this is how you respond.

You've been shown half-a-dozen pieces of strong evidence CC is dead.
On your side, you've provided zero evidence he's still alive.
And yet you'll still argue about it, abusively, 'to the death'.

That's literally: the definition of who Slider is as a man.

He's no man. I don't think he has any courage at all. Testosterone
and courage define masculinity and I don't get that from his posts at
all. He's a fretful child prone to tantrums.

---
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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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From: allreadydun@gmail.com

slider, dude, come off of it.
if you review the years here you'll
see that jer has taken enormously amount
of time writing/responding to you.
Way way more than i could ever do, believe me.
You certainly engaged him, and he engaged you.
You got just what you were looking for.
If not you would left years ago.
Come on now, let's call a spade a spade here.
Don't use all your petty defenses to puff yourself
up. No need dude. just call it the way you see it.
There's nothing to prove here. The past is gone.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@nanashram.com

crsds wrote...

just call it the way you see it.
There's nothing to prove here.

### - afaic that's all i've ever done!

'you' brought me here; say the word dude and am... gone!

just like that!

only 'you' can bring that!

(big responsibility huh? :)))

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: allreadydun@gmail.com

bottoms up, one last drink of the kool-aid? lol!

(big responsibility huh? :)))

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

On Monday, September 4, 2017 at 6:47:49 PM UTC-7, slider wrote:

YOU'RE the reason am still here! LOL LOL LOL :))))

In a way. You found someone you could argue with forever and
yet could never beat. It really has little to do with me,
per se. Finding thang here only sweetened that pot.

To reciprocate, let me assure you: you're NOT the reason I'm here.
Not a bit of it. LOL.

Not that I think you're a horrible person or anything. Although
you have terrible reasoning skills that you resort to compulsively,
often in rants against reason, which is deliciously ironic. :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.org

On Tue, 05 Sep 2017 20:57:57 +0100, Jeremy H. Denisovan <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, September 4, 2017 at 6:47:49 PM UTC-7, slider wrote:

YOU'RE the reason am still here! LOL LOL LOL :))))

In a way. You found someone you could argue with forever and
yet could never beat. It really has little to do with me,
per se. Finding thang here only sweetened that pot.

To reciprocate, let me assure you: you're NOT the reason I'm here.
Not a bit of it. LOL.

Not that I think you're a horrible person or anything. Although
you have terrible reasoning skills that you resort to compulsively,
often in rants against reason, which is deliciously ironic. :)

### - takes all-sorts to make a world... innit :)

different strokes for different folks, and all that?

and you're right, am not mean/cruel or anything, although you often are?

however, am 'against' cruelty in any form! particularly when i observe (or think i observe) people trying to 'damage' others? and that really IS the
only objection i've ever had towards you jeremy! you're entitled to your opinion just like everyone else (have never denied you that...) but can't
just stand idly by and watch you 'bash' your opinion into people's heads??
any more than i could stand by and let some kid repeatedly jab someone
with a needle just because they're displeased? my reaction is to usually
just take that needle (or whatever) off them, or blunt it so badly then
that it's no longer dangerous, whatever... but i can't just do... nothing?

oh for sure you've come swingin' at me on occasion, but then i can handle myself! so i never 'punish' you for that (i don't keep it up after you've stopped i mean, i never continue it, you stop and i stop, every time
really...) yeah might tease ya sometimes about/with it but never horribly?
not trying to start anything or anything, although you are very touchy...
just adult banter usually... and just gets a bit more 'pointed' when you
go on the attack again later, as you so predictable often do? but then ya
can't blame me for protecting myself! (i said don't throw stones? and then
you are always so dismayed when i then toss them back when you do?? so
just don't do it then! or accept/expect the consequences then! you don't
appear to be able to do... either?!?)

this latest fracas (of ours, 'coz lol i don't exactly know what's put a
bug up thang's ass this time, do you??) coming from me asking you to
pleaseee give it a rest? (4 parts was plenty to have already have been 'force-fed' - yes force-fed!) but no, you were up on your little soapbox
again! NOT open to reason? - barged you a 'bit' harder when part 5
appeared? (admittedly only a pointed wind-up/joke, if you're gonna talk
about cc then why not i too? - only of course you didn't take it like that
and (yawn) came out swingin'... again... full "fire & fury"! (said you
were (implicitly) voting for ww3 didn't i? well that's what i meant, ok?)

and no, i DON'T talk like YOU?!? i may even say the same things as you occasionally albeit in my 'own' way! to keep picking me up on language
form and making issues out of 'that', being as bad as picking peeps up on
typos and the like... (punctuation & form aren't everything + hey if jack kewouack could get away with with it, then so can i, k?:)))

from my pov, you appear to become very 'petty' whenever i challenge you on something/anything, every time, and then fly into a rage if/when i answer
you back?!? (toss a stone and i'll toss it back! (i can handle that but
you can't!)

you don't HAVE to do that tho' - do you? - you 'could' resort to 'other'
means other than: character assassination? (thangs does a more 'graphic' version/act of that lol but it's just about the same, less subtle, you're
this, that AND the other, on and on and on, drumming it in, mercilessly?
hahaha - just bounces off me tho lol, rolls right off like water off a
duck's back? and then he gets frustrated heh and gets louder? he did it continually for 18 months once lol - nada effect - how every frustrating
for him? funny, plus am immune to all that - thick skinned ya might say
:)))

:D

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

Sorry, we don't agree on that issue either. From what I've seen,
you've always been every bit as cruel and abusive as I have been,
or more so. You just never seem to realize it when you're doing it.

As proof, just tally up the mean remarks in this thread or in any
of the last 20 we've had this year, and COUNT who tossed the most
insults, me or you. I guarantee, you'll win that one. :)

What you don't realize is that you've always done that, too.
Thus, I see you as being extremely hypocritical.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@nanashram.com

On Tue, 05 Sep 2017 23:58:49 +0100, Jeremy H. Denisovan <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> wrote:

Sorry, we don't agree on that issue either. From what I've seen,
you've always been every bit as cruel and abusive as I have been,
or more so. You just never seem to realize it when you're doing it.

As proof, just tally up the mean remarks in this thread or in any
of the last 20 we've had this year, and COUNT who tossed the most
insults, me or you. I guarantee, you'll win that one. :)

What you don't realize is that you've always done that, too.
Thus, I see you as being extremely hypocritical.

### - there's a difference between jibing and being abusive + you'll only
see the latter when that's what's being offered to me (i'll slap you back
if you slap me, but i also deliberately pull my punches, am not try to
destroy you, am just protecting myself! parrying the blows... if there
were NO blows i'd have nothing to parry?)

you do have your 'buttons' that can be pressed, and i always but always start-off with the smaller ones, and only 'ever' when required! (to do
that without reason would be mean!)

what usually happens, is that we debate something and it's sorta all ok to begin with, but when we go farther into it, and/or am pressed to explain/justify myself because you either don't like the way it's all going/pointing, or you just misconstrue what am saying and start
contradicting, then you usually start flinging the insults and making it
all personal?? (i can do personal too! IF that's what's required! the
stones i toss back are nearly always usually the same one's you tossed for content! iow: if you didn't GET personal neither would i!)

do you ever see me having all this crap with chris?? never! he never makes
it personal! and IF he has to skirt around something 'like' that, he
usually does it: 'indirectly' (which makes it non-offensive! - don't BE a
cunt slider, is very different from actually calling me one, see? he's
still calling me one of course haha, but only from side-on!)

maybe you could try it sometime? see what happens! i CAN tell the
difference! :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

Clearly you will never acknowledge what you've actually done
over all these years. And most of it sure wasn't 'joking' or
defensive in nature. Nope, that doesn't fly. It never did. :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@nanashram.com

On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 01:55:17 +0100, Jeremy H. Denisovan <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> wrote:

Actually, I know 4 posters who totally stopped coming here
mainly because they couldn't abide your endless compulsive arguing.
There are probably more. Those are just the ones I know of.

I live mainly in the present. You keep trying to dwell on the past.
Moving on doesn't mean forgetting the lessons of the past.
It means not hanging onto the garbage.

You don't see anyone around here clearly.
It isn't just me that you fail to see.

### - I debate. People incapable of debate: argue :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

Actually, I know 4 posters who totally stopped coming here
mainly because they couldn't abide your endless compulsive arguing.
There are probably more. Those are just the ones I know of.

I live mainly in the present. You keep trying to dwell on the past.
Moving on doesn't mean forgetting the lessons of the past.
It means not hanging onto the garbage.

You don't see anyone around here clearly.
It isn't just me that you fail to see.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@nanashram.com

On Wed, 06 Sep 2017 20:03:17 +0100, Jeremy H. Denisovan <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> wrote:

Clearly you will never acknowledge what you've actually done
over all these years. And most of it sure wasn't 'joking' or
defensive in nature. Nope, that doesn't fly. It never did. :)

### - whatever, you wanna paint me as the villain of the peace but the
vast majority of the peeps i've dealt with on here over 2 decades (90+%)
were fine and anything i had to do with them ended fine as well, anyone
(of them) wanting conversation and/or an exchange of ideas certainly
received exactly that if not better, and all/any struggles (or worse)
between the others (a tiny minority) yourself included, were only ever the result of 'their' antagonism alone and/or an objection to some particular
point of mine for one reason or another that they just couldn't accept, in which 'they' (not i) first became abusive, and for no other reason...

you, otoh, have badgered & bullied virtually 'everyone' who didn't
expressly agree with you in the worst possible manner & way, you put
yourself first and 'their' feeling or well-being was never your concern,
as such i've literally lost count of the sheer number of people you've
shat on in your utterly barbaric quest in the process...

it's all there in black & white jeremy for anyone to fact-check! 20 years
of it :)

when cc died ('if' he died heh) you turned into a ravening monster whose 'anger' knew no bounds!

you were bad/offensive enough 'before' as just an 'ego-buster' in the cult
of cc (a seeming helpful-pastime of this newsgroup...) arrogant and
obnoxious, but after cc split you turned into a total cunt! and very nasty
with it to boot!

i merely only ever 'challenged' you in all of the above (as any 'human'
being would) but you went on the offensive every time! and the fact that
99 times outta 100 i kicked your ass all up and down the high street
whenever you started your antics is just too bad... for you! plus, seeing
as i don't take myself as seriously as you do yourself, you actually gave
me years of enjoyment in the process (quite true haha...)

you're fairly bright jeremy, i'll give you that, but you're also a
complete asshole with quite obvious personality disorders that you're no
way in control of... and you're not honest!

AND, at this 'late stage' of the game: who cares either! certainly not
moi! there's no one left for you to try and intimidate! (you crap on chris occasionally heh, only i don't doubt he laffs his ass-off atcha every
time! - "let him vent" hah!:))) - plus you're obviously scared of lowrider
& thang so you never go 'too far' in insulting them, so no problemo! :)

all in all, i had a great time here! met 'loads' of interesting peeps!
gave lots & learned tons too! and enjoyed myself immensely! there's been a
few failures too but not from my want of trying! and am perfectly happy
with that... afaic i honestly did my best and thus i can totally live with myself!

can you honestly say the same?

(and you really don't need to answer that btw heh, it's purely
rhetorical...)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.org

### - I debate. People incapable of debate: argue :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IN2AGZThL-8

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: allreadydun@gmail.com

Forest Whitaker in the Southpaw

must see this.

there's a scene where he asks the champ
"but what did you do"?

worth the movie right there.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: thangolossus@gmail.com

On Tue, 05 Sep 2017 03:48:24 +0100, slider <slider@nanashram.com>
wrote:

crsds wrote...

just call it the way you see it.
There's nothing to prove here.

### - afaic that's all i've ever done!

'you' brought me here; say the word dude and am... gone!

Make yourself better. Try thinking about things people post about,
really thinking, and *then* post a response.

Nothing pisses me off more about you than the fact that people will occasionally post something heartfelt or dense with thought and you
come along and respond with stupid one line put downs which don't
reflect any aspect of what's been posted.

No one gives a shit about fluff like that. No one cares about posts
which lack content. If you do fuck off, you won't be missed because
there's nothing TO miss. So, why not change? Take a bit of time to
dwell on what's posted and respond with well thought out challenge or
agreement along with your REASONS. Not just some insane jabber and
gibber which really just puts thinking people off.

And please STOP with the fucking reposts of NEWS ARTICLES ABOUT WAR.
What the fuck has that got to do with DREAMS or mysticism or theology
or anything esoteric or arcane?

People here read the news as a rule. They don't want you to cherry
pick the news and then add your stupid comments with ###s and :)s and
all those gimmicks, along with predictions of the end of the world and
all that. No one gives a fuck and it's a fucking nuisance.

just like that!

only 'you' can bring that!

(big responsibility huh? :)))

What's a ":)))" - multiple smiles or multiple mouths?

Cool the kindergarden keystrokes. People might take you seriously for
once.

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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From: thangolossus@gmail.com

On Tue, 05 Sep 2017 02:47:45 +0100, slider <slider@nanashram.com>
wrote:

On Tue, 05 Sep 2017 01:37:21 +0100, Jeremy H. Denisovan ><david.j.worrell@gmail.com> wrote:

The thing that's so obnoxious about you, Slider, is that you have
no real connection to Castaneda at all, yet you ensconced yourself
here for 20 years to badger the shit out of people who did.

### - i'd literally been on the net for only 2/3 weeks tops with my first >ever net-worthy pc computer, it was all brand new to me, looking around >trying to understand it etc, was surprised/curious to find cleargreen
(didn't even know it existed!) and in week 1 met some dude in some
cc-related chatroom who invited me here, ok? - come on over to 'our'
place! :)

studied this place for about 10 days or so by reading up old posts to come
up to speed before saying hello, and was already familiar enough with his >writings to understand the lingo... no one said it was exclusively for >cc-only related peeps and associates, so don't pull that shit on me now
like you're more important than anyone else here coz you actually met
him?? don't flatter yourself! plus how typical of you to accuse others of >what you yourself are? obnoxious! totally! and with nothing whatever to
even back it up!

For those who got deeply sucked into Castaneda's game, it's
important to be able to figure out what really happened.
Most people are not smart enough to understand it all
even when I paint the picture in front of their face.
It doesn't help when you try once again to blur it.

### - yeah right... some *self-appointed* anti-messiah! who took it upon >'himself' to graphically 'explain' it to others, even if he had to break >their heads to do it???

fuck off! you're a caveman! a lout! a liar! AND an obsessive nut to boot!
a real trouble maker!

Slider, you're the troublemaker (one word). At least I can be assured
with Dave of a thoughtful response to a thoughtful post - something
you are incapable of. No matter the content of practically any
original post, you will fire a broadside without thought. Captain
Negative.

I have never since I invited myself to this board seen you post
anything which implies deep thought. Most people are capable of
greater depth when they write because, *while* they write, they think
about *what* they write. This is something I see day to day because
if I don't do that then I don't get paid and ditto for those I deal
with (usually). You don't. You accuse Dave of obsession. Have a look
at your posts of news reports of impending war and strife - isn't what
you're doing obsessive?

Why don't you think before you post? People wouldn't have such issues
with you. People might like you. People might even respect you.

Most people cannot believe things like this really happen.
It is literally easier for people to believe strange cult lies
than it is to for them to comprehend the reality behind them.
Weird, huh? :)

### - not so weird in a world full of FOOLS like you?!?!

A *world* full of fools? Are you for real? Take a moment to reflect
on the middle class lives which surround you in London. Homes, kids,
wives, jobs, peace and quite, money in the bank, money to DO things
with, money to BUY things with like a new CAR or BIKE or books or
pieces for collections, travel, seeing the sights and how other people
live, watching your kids grow up and then have their own kids, all the
things YOU don't appear to have.

Who's the fool?

and is rather par for the course i would have said hah! it's expected!
(are you really that naive??)

in fact, half the reason for my remaining here so long was only to protect >people from YOU!

Bullshit. You stay here so you can tell people about the imminent
demise of civilisation and shoot people down when they post something
positive about the human race. You are the most negative person I've
ever encountered on usenet. If I met you in RL, I would tell you that
right in your fucking face.

People here have tolerated you, barely. Now, as your senescence
creeps in, you are becoming fucking intolerable. I'm getting older
and I don't have the patience anymore for your nonsense.

you gave me a job my nature was totally suited to! 'automatically'
responded to!

YOU'RE the reason am still here! LOL LOL LOL :))))

Crap. You don't have anything else to do or anywhere else to go.

(in truth, a lot of peeps here were fairly damaged by everything that went >down, and YOU weren't helping!?! accordingly, as a friend, i think i did
my bit to ease-up quite a few of them, tucked them back in (where they
were falling out...) and sent them on their merry way... because that's
what 'friends' do!)

I think Scientology was far more damaging because that was and is a
proper cult. I know Dave had something to do with Dianetics but I
think it was only tangential. I don't reallyl see anything damaged
about him or Chris, just a sense of loss in both of them.

There are many more cultists in the various religions especially the
christian and islam ones. They are more than damaged - some of them
are fucking dangerous. Point out the differences between what CC
thought or told people he thought and what christians and muslims say
about miracles and triads and apocalyptic second comings etc etc. It
would seem that what CC said has more chance of truth than all those
fairy tales yet billions are caught up in those cults. Obsessively
so.

You don't have any belief system at all. You don't have any thoughts
about the cosmos or your place in it. You are consumed with
bitterness and rancour about how poorly life has treated you. But
remember this:

You make your own luck.

you're the ONLY one left that's still all fucked up! (laughing...)

I dispute that. He's got a life which is something you don't appear
to have. He's got a kid, things to do, a job I believe (might be
wrong on that one), he thinks, he definitely travels and sees the
splendours which surround us all, he thinks and he posts thoughtful
content.

All of which are things which you don't have or do.

So, who's "...all fucked up"?

only i don't think you can BE repaired! probably because you were always >fucked up anyway?

there's something wrong with you jeremy! you're NOT playing with a full
deck!

Good lord. You can't be for real. I meet many people who don't play
with a full deck and you are one of them, mate. You're pretty much
simple minded and incapable of thinking through problems and issues
and you resent those who can and do. I've got a degree and I think
Dave might have one too or at least some sort of tertiary qual. You,
on the other hand, I don't think matriculated from high school. Your grammatical "skills" give that away. But worse, school is intended at
higher levels to train people to research and organise their studies
without compulsion - you don't have those abilities or self discipline
so it's clear you have not completed any sort of tertiary studies. I
don't think you have matriculated because of your poor reason and lack
of grammatical construction. No school here would let you matriculate
with the writing skills you exhibit.

I think all of that, all of those restrictions on your education, are
due to your "moderate" intellect.

you have a very violent and malevolent streak! you don't care who you hurt!

You're joking right?

of course, try though you might you've never been ABLE to even get
anywhere NEAR me, and that's precisely what pisses you off! (gud!) i've
had to deal with cavemen before and you're a child by comparison! just
some puffed up little prick with a wounded pride, awwww shame!

fuck you! :)

Sounds to me like he's been able to get to you. You sound all wounded
and hurt. With your simple mindedness, I don't think you're capable
of putting that on so...he's gotten to you.

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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From: thangolossus@gmail.com

On Tue, 05 Sep 2017 21:53:26 +0100, slider <slider@anashram.org>
wrote:

On Tue, 05 Sep 2017 20:57:57 +0100, Jeremy H. Denisovan ><david.j.worrell@gmail.com> wrote:

On Monday, September 4, 2017 at 6:47:49 PM UTC-7, slider wrote:

YOU'RE the reason am still here! LOL LOL LOL :))))

In a way. You found someone you could argue with forever and
yet could never beat. It really has little to do with me,
per se. Finding thang here only sweetened that pot.

To reciprocate, let me assure you: you're NOT the reason I'm here.
Not a bit of it. LOL.

Not that I think you're a horrible person or anything. Although
you have terrible reasoning skills that you resort to compulsively,
often in rants against reason, which is deliciously ironic. :)

### - takes all-sorts to make a world... innit :)

different strokes for different folks, and all that?

and you're right, am not mean/cruel or anything, although you often are?

however, am 'against' cruelty in any form! particularly when i observe (or >think i observe) people trying to 'damage' others? and that really IS the >only objection i've ever had towards you jeremy! you're entitled to your >opinion just like everyone else (have never denied you that...) but can't >just stand idly by and watch you 'bash' your opinion into people's heads?? >any more than i could stand by and let some kid repeatedly jab someone
with a needle just because they're displeased? my reaction is to usually
just take that needle (or whatever) off them, or blunt it so badly then
that it's no longer dangerous, whatever... but i can't just do... nothing?

oh for sure you've come swingin' at me on occasion, but then i can handle >myself! so i never 'punish' you for that (i don't keep it up after you've >stopped i mean, i never continue it, you stop and i stop, every time >really...) yeah might tease ya sometimes about/with it but never horribly? >not trying to start anything or anything, although you are very touchy... >just adult banter usually... and just gets a bit more 'pointed' when you
go on the attack again later, as you so predictable often do? but then ya >can't blame me for protecting myself! (i said don't throw stones? and then >you are always so dismayed when i then toss them back when you do?? so
just don't do it then! or accept/expect the consequences then! you don't >appear to be able to do... either?!?)

this latest fracas (of ours, 'coz lol i don't exactly know what's put a
bug up thang's ass this time, do you??) coming from me asking you to
pleaseee give it a rest? (4 parts was plenty to have already have been >'force-fed' - yes force-fed!) but no, you were up on your little soapbox >again! NOT open to reason? - barged you a 'bit' harder when part 5
appeared? (admittedly only a pointed wind-up/joke, if you're gonna talk
about cc then why not i too? - only of course you didn't take it like that >and (yawn) came out swingin'... again... full "fire & fury"! (said you
were (implicitly) voting for ww3 didn't i? well that's what i meant, ok?)

I'll tell you precisely what's put a hair up my arse. You. I told
you that I get paid to think and to write. Always have. Along with
some math but that's part of the "thinking" bit. I'm a problem solver
by profession. I'm getting on in years and don't have patience
anymore.

So, when I post something here as an OP it's usually because I have
something to say. If I have something to say, typically, I have
thought about it before I post. That's my training but that's also my profession. I'm highly structured in thought and even more so when I
write.

If I have something to say, you can take it as given that I've thought
about it and my thoughts are generally not fleeting (as in, bird
brained). Given the nature of this group, my postings usually are
about things esoteric or mystical, things which I'm restrained about
in my day to day life. I thought everyone else here was of the same
bent.

Dave tends to post in a similar vein. Chris not so much and not so expressively. You, when you respond to posts which have real content,
are dismissive and that's putting it kindly. Your responses are crude
and poorly thought out. They lack structure and evidently lack logic.
You don't address the OP's theme. You don't address any part of the
content in fact. You go off on a fucking tangent and waffle and
quaver about nonsense which doesn't come within lightyears of the OP's
point or points.

That, slide, is what's put a bug up my arse about you. I just can't
be fucked putting up with it anymore. And, the problem is, there are
too many self righteous fools like you around the place and, as I
said, I'm getting older and I cannot be FUCKED putting up with them
anymore, or you. To do so would betray myself.

and no, i DON'T talk like YOU?!? i may even say the same things as you >occasionally albeit in my 'own' way! to keep picking me up on language
form and making issues out of 'that', being as bad as picking peeps up on >typos and the like... (punctuation & form aren't everything + hey if jack >kewouack could get away with with it, then so can i, k?:)))

from my pov, you appear to become very 'petty' whenever i challenge you on
something/anything, every time, and then fly into a rage if/when i answer
you back?!? (toss a stone and i'll toss it back! (i can handle that but
you can't!)

you don't HAVE to do that tho' - do you? - you 'could' resort to 'other' >means other than: character assassination? (thangs does a more 'graphic' >version/act of that lol but it's just about the same, less subtle, you're >this, that AND the other, on and on and on, drumming it in, mercilessly? >hahaha - just bounces off me tho lol, rolls right off like water off a
duck's back? and then he gets frustrated heh and gets louder? he did it >continually for 18 months once lol - nada effect - how every frustrating
for him? funny, plus am immune to all that - thick skinned ya might say
:)))

:D

---
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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: thangolossus@gmail.com

On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 02:22:14 +0100, slider <slider@nanashram.com>
wrote:

On Thu, 07 Sep 2017 01:55:17 +0100, Jeremy H. Denisovan ><david.j.worrell@gmail.com> wrote:

Actually, I know 4 posters who totally stopped coming here
mainly because they couldn't abide your endless compulsive arguing.
There are probably more. Those are just the ones I know of.

I live mainly in the present. You keep trying to dwell on the past.
Moving on doesn't mean forgetting the lessons of the past.
It means not hanging onto the garbage.

You don't see anyone around here clearly.
It isn't just me that you fail to see.

### - I debate. People incapable of debate: argue :)

My god! You do NOT debate. You're not capable of it. You argue and
you argue poorly. One can argue a case and one can debate a case,
both are perfectly acceptable and civilised modes of discourse. You
try to cudgel and if that doesn't work, you try to bamboozle.

If you debated points I or others (the dwindling few) post here, then
I wouldn't be posting this about you. Nor would Dave. I don't see eye
to eye with him often but at least he debates - he reads, he absorbs,
he thinks, he structures a response, he gives citations sometimes
supporting his responses, he posts. You do none of that.

If you try this method, you will not only improve your posting style
you won't have personal issues with people here. Or anywhere else.
People respect analytical skills because there are a lot of people who
don't have them. But people also respect those who don't have such
skills but at least try. You don't even try. You just take swipes.
It's unacceptable.


---
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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@nanashram.com

Jeremy goes very quiet? ;)

fortunately, for you, dr duenas does indeed appear to be genuine?

https://www.itriagehealth.com/doctor/angelica-duenas-410420/background

but then who's to say he didn't somehow just con her too?

By his own accounts
Carlos did try to "con" Dr. Duenas on a few occasions. She was
one of CC's doctors for a few years, and was one of the doctors
treating him for several months before he died. Carlos told us
tales about his interactions with her, which naturally were
somewhat strange, given the kind of man he was.

In fact, Carlos *did* try to pull Dr. Angelica Duenas into
his web of mythical fantasies. He once claimed Duenas was the
granddaughter of some healer don Juan threatened to send him to.

and "Anjelica (Duenas) is going to live with them" on Sunday.

You would know that too if you ever
paid attention, just as you would already have seen the Death Cert
and would have known about Dr. Duenas too, if you paid attention.
You *don't* pay attention to the real evidence. Instead you latch
onto some bullshit idea and then wank with it forever

### - well there goes 'any' credibility of dr duenas being a 'completely independent' witness?

a huge *hole/doubt* in your *hardest evidence* that he... actually died!?!

e.g., he & she may have arrived at an agreement much earlier on!

no proof they didn't! in fact rather the opposite? a BIG question mark now
over the DC?

so he HAD a doctor 'on-board' then huh? riiiiight...

hey, dr duenas; how'd like a million buck$ to help a famous friend escape
the public eye?

2 million? - 3? - lol maybe it was even HER idea/suggestion in the first
place!

in which case greg/gabi WERE used as a convenient excuse/omen for 'em all
to eff-off!

so careless, that by spreading the lie you 'helped' them... escape!?!

hey, i wonder where they all went/fled to?

south america perhaps? (cc phoned home? :D )

LOL they must be laffing their proverbial asses off! :)))

truth is, now you dunno 'shit' about what 'actually' happened innit! -
nada!

'as-usual' you only 'thought' you did! and typically acted like an ass!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIBTg7q9oNc

you became (or tried to become heh) a 'scientist' for nada!

:D

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

I guess it's about as good as your other conspiracy theories.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

Slider's latest 'material' is just... old. Around 15 years ago
we had to deal with a few flakes claiming: CC faked his death,
knew he was being watched, was only stalking us, is enjoying
cocktails in Reno with Elvis, etc. and NOW Slider finally
notices he could add this to his odd conspiracy theories? Wow.

Now that even Cleargreen has admitted Carlos had cancer...

At around 26:35 in the YouTube below Reni admits Carlos got
liver cancer, which is what Dr. Duenas certified he died of -
also what Carlos looked like he had on Greg and Gaby's video.
Reni still equivocates over whether he "passed" or "ascended"
or whatever (which is of course a crock).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pcnd7h-pEuc&t=8s

(Shortly after, Reni also admits Cleargreen hasn't heard from
the missing women in over 15 years - and personally I doubt
that Carol ever heard from them *at all* after they ran off. )

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 2:46:53 PM UTC-7, easyst wrote:

barking brujo dog writes:

(Shortly after, Reni also admits Cleargreen hasn't heard from
the missing women in over 15 years - and personally I doubt
that Carol ever heard from them *at all* after they ran off. )

i bet they all are still hooked up financially.

Well, there's no evidence of that.

what wife is getting that social security paycheck?
will the real wife stand up? lol !
{The Real Wives of Pandora} next hit on Bravo?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@nanashram.com

i bet they all are still hooked up financially.
what wife is getting that social security paycheck?
will the real wife stand up? lol !
{The Real Wives of Pandora} next hit on Bravo?

### - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjfQV-Oemsc

you 'could' maybe figure it all out?

a detective on NZT would solve cases!

;)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: allreadydun@gmail.com

barking brujo dog writes:

(Shortly after, Reni also admits Cleargreen hasn't heard from
the missing women in over 15 years - and personally I doubt
that Carol ever heard from them *at all* after they ran off. )

i bet they all are still hooked up financially.
what wife is getting that social security paycheck?
will the real wife stand up? lol !
{The Real Wives of Pandora} next hit on Bravo?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@nanashram.com

On Tue, 12 Sep 2017 00:58:01 +0100, Jeremy H. Denisovan <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> wrote:

I guess it's about as good as your other conspiracy theories.

### - heh yeah... at LEAST i HAVE theories!?!

what have YOU got?? - sweet FA other than 'complaining' & 'whining' about
what OTHER peeps are doing/have done???

you HAVE no PROOF whatsoever that cc even... died!

and 'everything' else that happened could just 'as easily' (if not more
so!) be construed to tell another completely different story! - actually a
far more likely one!

the fact that the idea (if true) reveals YOU to be a braying fucking
jackass without an original thought in your head, is, well... YOUR
problemo pal, not mine! hah!

in (sustained) reaction: you formed an anti-cc... cult?!? - you hypocrite!
DUH!

YOUR 'determination' to make cc 'look bad' because it suited YOU, only
further revealing what a fucking idiot you are?? and the fact that you've,
in all likelihood, 'deliberately misled' your peers by railroading &
bullying them into 'believing' YOUR version of things (again because it
suited YOU!) *again* revealing you to be the lying sack of shit (&
bullshit) you really are?!?

like WHEN have you EVER been right???

never! and on sooo MANY occasions now it's just fucking... ridiculous!!!

you're completely disingenuous jeremy! completely!

and PLEASE don't talk to me again, ok?

you & i are totally... DONE!

'and' you can stick your 'part 6' where the sun don't shine!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: jeremyhdonovan@gmail.com

Your desperation is showing again.

And btw, I posted part 6 several days ago. :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@nanashram.com

great love affair you two are having.

i'm even gettin' jealous too (not)

never a dull moment around adc, continuous entertainment

### - hahaha (double-act slider & jeremy both take a bow hehehe...)

jeremy's the straight man of the act?

the one who ultimately gets all the custard pies in the puss heh :)))

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: allreadydun@gmail.com

great love affair you two are having.

i'm even gettin' jealous too (not)

never a dull moment around adc, continuous entertainment

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: thangolossus@gmail.com

Can't you see your're far too stupid to fit in around here, russki
pig?

Haven't you got something better to do, like play in the mud, or drink
some vodka?

Fuck offski :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrKKPGhh-ZU


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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: thangolossus@gmail.com

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrKKPGhh-ZU


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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: thangolossus@gmail.com

Hi there Rus boi. Thought I might remind you of this :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrKKPGhh-ZU

There exists in the world a single path along which no one
can go except you:
whither does it lead?
Do not ask, go along it.

(Nietzsche: Untimely Meditations,"Schopenhauer as educator" § 3.1)

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: thangolossus@gmail.com

Here ya go :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrKKPGhh-ZU

---
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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: thangolossus@gmail.com

Here's YOUR reminder :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrKKPGhh-ZU


---
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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@nanashram.com

On Sun, 12 Nov 2017 03:37:37 -0000, thang ornerythinchus <thangolossus@gmail.com> wrote:

Here's YOUR reminder :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrKKPGhh-ZU

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### - you're talking to a bot? :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: robert_smrdelj@gmx.de

Am 30.12.2017 um 11:57 schrieb Gatekeeper:

Hi visitor!

This group is dedicated to Carlos Castaneda legacy and teachings of his

teacher known as Don Juan.

This is unmoderated group, so there are lots of spam here.
There is a way to get rid of spam/off-topic/abuse in this group.
Use free moderated mailing list to get relevant only messages: http://insensciety.com/mailman/listinfo/alt.dreams.castaneda

Thank you and please keep posting to the group any information dedicated to

the group topic.

This reminder will be posted here weekly.

Group's Gatekeeper

I will fucking telekill you, gatekeeper! I'm a psycho i know how to do
it and i can see you!

--
https://cosmicpurple.wordpress.com

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

Angel Love(?) wrote...

Am 30.12.2017 um 11:57 schrieb Gatekeeper:

Hi visitor!
This group is dedicated to Carlos Castaneda legacy and teachings of
his teacher known as Don Juan.
This is unmoderated group, so there are lots of spam here.
There is a way to get rid of spam/off-topic/abuse in this group.
Use free moderated mailing list to get relevant only messages:
http://insensciety.com/mailman/listinfo/alt.dreams.castaneda
Thank you and please keep posting to the group any information
dedicated to the group topic.
This reminder will be posted here weekly.
Group's Gatekeeper

I will fucking telekill you, gatekeeper! I'm a psycho i know how to do
it and i can see you!

### - yeah gatekeeper! and a merry fucking christmas too!

ahahaha :D

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: thangolossus@gmail.com

On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 14:08:59 +0100, Angel Love <robert_smrdelj@gmx.de>
wrote:

Am 30.12.2017 um 11:57 schrieb Gatekeeper:

Hi visitor!

This group is dedicated to Carlos Castaneda legacy and teachings of his teacher known as Don Juan.

This is unmoderated group, so there are lots of spam here.
There is a way to get rid of spam/off-topic/abuse in this group.
Use free moderated mailing list to get relevant only messages:
http://insensciety.com/mailman/listinfo/alt.dreams.castaneda

Thank you and please keep posting to the group any information dedicated to the group topic.

This reminder will be posted here weekly.

Group's Gatekeeper

I will fucking telekill you, gatekeeper! I'm a psycho i know how to do
it and i can see you!

On this you have my support. This motherfucker russki dog is nothing
more than a pest and like all pests, extermination is the relevant and appropriate protocol.

---
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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: allreadydun@gmail.com

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiKj1FNBE3Q

peaking like a mofo, this is what can happen.
enjoy.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: allreadydun@gmail.com

I watched with glee while your kings and queens
Fought for ten decades for the gods they made
I shouted out, "Who killed the Kennedys?"

ten decades?
oh dude it runs longer than that.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

I shouted out, "Who killed the Kennedys?"

### - told ya'll the answer to 'that' one already!

(but shhh, it's a secret ok? heh ;) )

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

On Saturday, April 28, 2018 at 3:00:02 AM UTC-7, Gatekeeper wrote:

Hi visitor!

This group is dedicated to Carlos Castaneda legacy

Here's a part of Castaneda's legacy, this right here: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/articles/199811/diving-conscience-bay

Freddie Lenz was big on Castaneda's teachings -
and he borrowed a great many of them...

Excerpts:

... Police called in divers who, 10 hours later, pulled a man's body from the water. He was dressed in a suit and tie. Around his neck was a dog collar with a dangling rabies vaccination tag.

The man was Frederick Lenz III, better known to the world as the New Age guru Zen Master Rama; the woman, Brinn Lacey, one of his devoted followers. Two nights before, in a suicide pact, the pair had drugged the dogs with phenobarbital, downed fistfuls
of Valium (at least 150 pills by Lenz alone) and stepped off the pier. By some miracle, Lacey and the dogs survived; Lenz did not. Lacey wrote in a note the police found by her side: "We all tried police go too the other woorld last night, anti only Rama
made it..."

Lenz was a charlatan who lied without compunction, fleeced his students and sexually exploited women. "For someone who theoretically lived his life to help
others, he spent a great deal of his time looking out for his own interests," wrote Steve Kaplan,
an ex-follower, in a letter printed in New York magazine after the guru's death. "Lenz was a walking contradiction."

He proclaimed himself "one of the 12 truly enlightened beings on the planet," but seemed beset by private demons. And in what may be the supreme irony, Lenz,
who never evinced a twinge of guilt, chose to die in a body of water known as Conscience Bay.

As an adult. Lenz kept his family ties to a minimum. He distanced himself. rarely phoning or visiting relatives.

At Rippowam High School, where he was apparently well-liked, fellow students dubbed him "Crazy Fred" and jokingly described him in their yearbook as a "cut-rate philosopher."

After graduation. Lenz headed for the heart of the then-lowering hippie movement, San Francisco. He spent a year in the Haight-Ashbury district.

Lenz followed up an interest, first cultivated in San Francisco, in the teachings of Sri Chinmoy, a popular Hindu guru who combined traditional Buddhist practice with physical fitness. In Chinmoy, who ran an ashram in nearby Norwalk, Lenz found a focus
he had never had before. Soon he was recruiting followers to Chimney's teachings of humility, obedience and fidelity.

Accepted to graduate school at the Stony Brook campus of the State University of New York, Lenz worked to earn a doctorate in literature... Thereafter, Lenz insisted on referring to himself as "Dr." in virtually every forum.

All during this time, Lenz was recruiting for Chinmoy, but eventually he began to chafe at the guru's strict rules. According to Mark Laxer, a former follower
of Lenz who turned into his harshest critic, Chinmoy became fed up with Lenz's womanizing. in
1979, Chinmoy apparently decided to teach Lenz a lesson in humility and obedience by sending him to San Diego to open a Laundromat.

San Diego, the place of Lenz's birth, became the place of his reinvention, the first of several. The geographical distance further weakened Lenz' allegiance to Chinmoy. Lenz, who by then was calling himself by the Hindu name Atmananda, began to hint of
his own divinity. The final break with Chinmoy came one night when, as Laxer recounts it, Lenz, summoned his closest followers to the oceanside house and Laxer were then sharing with three women and announced that "Something heavy has been going down in
the inner worlds. Can anyone see what it is?"

The turmoil, as it turned out, was that Chinmoy has "fallen." In the ensuing uproar, Lenz lost most of his following, but soon he was recruiting throughout California--this time to his own teachings...

Over the years, he acquired expensive homes in Santa Fe and Bedford, New York. He owned Porsches, Mercedes and Range Rovers. He dressed in Versace.

What little credibility Lenz might have had was obliterated with his suicide.

Lenz had numerous sexual encounters with female students, which he insisted were consensual explorations of "tantric sex," though his tactics were clearly manipulative.

"He considered his sperm to be liquid enlightenment and we should be very honored to have it in our bodies," says Nancy (not her real name). "I'm embarrassed to admit that I fell for that. I sure thought highly of myself until I began meeting all of the
other women whom he had sex with."

Throughout the 1980s, Lenz was using LSD and having his inner circle use it as well. He started to develop a belief in "negative spiritual forces" that only he could see anti that could wreak physical and psychological havoc. Lenz became increasingly
distrustful, even abusive. "I suspect Rama was deeply affected by all the hallucinogens he took," says Rubin. "They probably contributed to his mental fantasies about himself and to his paranoia."

Lenz began to believe that people wanted him dead and that even his followers were out to get him. "They were always trying to psychically kill him, he claimed," says Nancy. In response, the preacher of inner peace resorted to some
decidedly non-pacific
action. Says Nancy, "He proudly told me of a time when he put out a low grade kill energy' to anyone that wanted to mess with him, because he was tired of it. One of the men that was working on his house keeled over and died of a heart attack. Rama was
very proud of the fact that he `killed' him."

Around the time the stock market crashed in 1987, so did Lenz's highflying life. Some of his students came forward with tales of outlandish behavior. "I got calls from people complaining about him," says Szimhart. "It was basically stuff he's been
accused of all along - sexually manipulating women and taking a lot of money from an inner core of members."

Mercedes Hughes, who was deprogrammed by Szimhart, claimed that Lenz convinced her that one of her responsibilities was to perk him up alter his seminars "and
sex was one of the ways." Anny Eastwood charged that Lenz had threatened her with a pistol and
forced her to have sex with him. But the heaviest blow came when Donald Cole, a
UCLA student who studied under Rama, committed suicide by stabbing himself to death. In the note he left behind, Cole apologized for falling short of Lenz's standards. "Bye,
Rama," the note read. "See you next time."

Though he denied all the charges, Lenz's image was badly tarnished. To most outsiders, Rama was now a cult leader, not a Zen. master. The torrent of bad publicity affected Lenz deeply. "He almost went completely bald because of depression when the
allegations came out," says one person who knew him. "tie had these huge periods of depression because everyone was after him."

"He thought all of his students had terrible energy and that we contaminated anything we touched," says Nancy, who lived with him for a time (unlike most cult leaders, Lenz did not live with his band of disciples). Afraid of being poisoned--he claimed to
have been poisoned to death in a past life by one of his students--Rama would not permit Nancy to cook for him.

After spending a few years in relative quiet, he burst back on the scene in 1995 as a novelist with Surfing the Himalayas: A Spiritual Adventure. The book is a detailed account of Lenz's putative encounter with a Tibetan monk named Master Fwap who
reveals to him the keys to snowboarding down mountains. (Lenz had styled himself as a master of extreme athletics by this time.)

It was pure Carlos Castenada--with snow. Lenz often quoted the reclusive mystical writer, who is a favorite of New Age seekers. The book received scathing reviews. The Denver Post slammed it as "poorly researched crud" while the Santa Fe Sun derided it
as "terrifically dull and stupefying."

[Note misspelling: Castenada ;) ]

***

From my personal music collection, here's an entire album
of music by Freddie Lenz's band, 'Zazen', released in 1997,
the year before both Castaneda and Lenz died:

Cayman Blue: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rjtieqnis86rrfh/AADi5ECORhpc6-Uss1BJ4Rsda?dl=0

Castaneda and Lenz both died in April 1998.

.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: thangolossus@gmail.com

On Sat, 28 Apr 2018 11:10:06 -0700 (PDT), "Jeremy H. Denisovan" <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> wrote:

On Saturday, April 28, 2018 at 3:00:02 AM UTC-7, Gatekeeper wrote:

Hi visitor!

This group is dedicated to Carlos Castaneda legacy

Here's a part of Castaneda's legacy, this right here: >https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/articles/199811/diving-conscience-bay

Freddie Lenz was big on Castaneda's teachings -
and he borrowed a great many of them...

Excerpts:

... Police called in divers who, 10 hours later, pulled a man's body from the water. He was dressed in a suit and tie. Around his neck was a dog collar with a dangling rabies vaccination tag.

The man was Frederick Lenz III, better known to the world as the New Age guru Zen Master Rama; the woman, Brinn Lacey, one of his devoted followers. Two nights before, in a suicide pact, the pair had drugged the dogs with phenobarbital, downed fistfuls

of Valium (at least 150 pills by Lenz alone) and stepped off the pier. By some miracle, Lacey and the dogs survived; Lenz did not. Lacey wrote in a note the police found by her side: "We all tried police go too the other woorld last night, anti only Rama
made it..."

Lenz was a charlatan who lied without compunction, fleeced his students and sexually exploited women. "For someone who theoretically lived his life to help

others, he spent a great deal of his time looking out for his own interests," wrote Steve Kaplan,
an ex-follower, in a letter printed in New York magazine after the guru's death. "Lenz was a walking contradiction."

He proclaimed himself "one of the 12 truly enlightened beings on the planet," but seemed beset by private demons. And in what may be the supreme irony, Lenz,

who never evinced a twinge of guilt, chose to die in a body of water known as Conscience Bay.

As an adult. Lenz kept his family ties to a minimum. He distanced himself. rarely phoning or visiting relatives.

At Rippowam High School, where he was apparently well-liked, fellow students dubbed him "Crazy Fred" and jokingly described him in their yearbook as a "cut-rate philosopher."

After graduation. Lenz headed for the heart of the then-lowering hippie movement, San Francisco. He spent a year in the Haight-Ashbury district.

Lenz followed up an interest, first cultivated in San Francisco, in the teachings of Sri Chinmoy, a popular Hindu guru who combined traditional Buddhist practice with physical fitness. In Chinmoy, who ran an ashram in nearby Norwalk, Lenz found a focus

he had never had before. Soon he was recruiting followers to Chimney's teachings of humility, obedience and fidelity.

Accepted to graduate school at the Stony Brook campus of the State University of New York, Lenz worked to earn a doctorate in literature... Thereafter, Lenz insisted on referring to himself as "Dr." in virtually every forum.

All during this time, Lenz was recruiting for Chinmoy, but eventually he began

to chafe at the guru's strict rules. According to Mark Laxer, a former follower
of Lenz who turned into his harshest critic, Chinmoy became fed up with Lenz's womanizing. in
1979, Chinmoy apparently decided to teach Lenz a lesson in humility and obedience by sending him to San Diego to open a Laundromat.

San Diego, the place of Lenz's birth, became the place of his reinvention, the

first of several. The geographical distance further weakened Lenz' allegiance to Chinmoy. Lenz, who by then was calling himself by the Hindu name Atmananda, began to hint of
his own divinity. The final break with Chinmoy came one night when, as Laxer recounts it, Lenz, summoned his closest followers to the oceanside house and Laxer were then sharing with three women and announced that "Something heavy has been going down in
the inner worlds. Can anyone see what it is?"

The turmoil, as it turned out, was that Chinmoy has "fallen." In the ensuing uproar, Lenz lost most of his following, but soon he was recruiting throughout California--this time to his own teachings...

Over the years, he acquired expensive homes in Santa Fe and Bedford, New York.

He owned Porsches, Mercedes and Range Rovers. He dressed in Versace.

What little credibility Lenz might have had was obliterated with his suicide.

Lenz had numerous sexual encounters with female students, which he insisted were consensual explorations of "tantric sex," though his tactics were clearly manipulative.

"He considered his sperm to be liquid enlightenment and we should be very honored to have it in our bodies," says Nancy (not her real name). "I'm embarrassed to admit that I fell for that. I sure thought highly of myself until I began meeting all of the

other women whom he had sex with."

Throughout the 1980s, Lenz was using LSD and having his inner circle use it as

well. He started to develop a belief in "negative spiritual forces" that only he could see anti that could wreak physical and psychological havoc. Lenz became increasingly
distrustful, even abusive. "I suspect Rama was deeply affected by all the hallucinogens he took," says Rubin. "They probably contributed to his mental fantasies about himself and to his paranoia."

Lenz began to believe that people wanted him dead and that even his followers were out to get him. "They were always trying to psychically kill him, he claimed," says Nancy. In response, the preacher of inner peace resorted to some

decidedly non-pacific
action. Says Nancy, "He proudly told me of a time when he put out a low grade kill energy' to anyone that wanted to mess with him, because he was tired of it. One of the men that was working on his house keeled over and died of a heart attack. Rama was
very proud of the fact that he `killed' him."

Around the time the stock market crashed in 1987, so did Lenz's highflying life. Some of his students came forward with tales of outlandish behavior. "I got calls from people complaining about him," says Szimhart. "It was basically stuff he's been

accused of all along - sexually manipulating women and taking a lot of money from an inner core of members."

Mercedes Hughes, who was deprogrammed by Szimhart, claimed that Lenz convinced

her that one of her responsibilities was to perk him up alter his seminars "and
sex was one of the ways." Anny Eastwood charged that Lenz had threatened her with a pistol and
forced her to have sex with him. But the heaviest blow came when Donald Cole, a
UCLA student who studied under Rama, committed suicide by stabbing himself to death. In the note he left behind, Cole apologized for falling short of Lenz's standards. "Bye,
Rama," the note read. "See you next time."

Though he denied all the charges, Lenz's image was badly tarnished. To most outsiders, Rama was now a cult leader, not a Zen. master. The torrent of bad publicity affected Lenz deeply. "He almost went completely bald because of depression when the

allegations came out," says one person who knew him. "tie had these huge periods of depression because everyone was after him."

"He thought all of his students had terrible energy and that we contaminated anything we touched," says Nancy, who lived with him for a time (unlike most cult leaders, Lenz did not live with his band of disciples). Afraid of being poisoned--he claimed

to have been poisoned to death in a past life by one of his students--Rama would not permit Nancy to cook for him.

After spending a few years in relative quiet, he burst back on the scene in 1995 as a novelist with Surfing the Himalayas: A Spiritual Adventure. The book is a detailed account of Lenz's putative encounter with a Tibetan monk named Master Fwap who

reveals to him the keys to snowboarding down mountains. (Lenz had styled himself as a master of extreme athletics by this time.)

It was pure Carlos Castenada--with snow. Lenz often quoted the reclusive mystical writer, who is a favorite of New Age seekers. The book received scathing reviews. The Denver Post slammed it as "poorly researched crud" while the Santa Fe Sun derided it

as "terrifically dull and stupefying."

[Note misspelling: Castenada ;) ]

***

From my personal music collection, here's an entire album
of music by Freddie Lenz's band, 'Zazen', released in 1997,
the year before both Castaneda and Lenz died:

Cayman Blue: >https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rjtieqnis86rrfh/AADi5ECORhpc6-Uss1BJ4Rsda?dl=0

Castaneda and Lenz both died in April 1998.

Lol. Perhaps he thought he could walk on water?



---
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From: thangolossus@gmail.com

<snip batshit crazy russian lies>

No conflict has vexed Russia’s self-image more than the Soviet-Afghan
War. The quandary only begins with the fact that it ended in 1989 in a
defeat that helped bring down the Soviet Union. Equally problematic is
that it took place outside of the imagined space of the motherland
and, worse still, violated inherited tradition. Soviet Russia was the unqualified aggressor, invading a neighbor torn by a civil war, and
the conduct of its troops was often abominable. “You soon realize,” a veteran explained, “that what you find really objectionable is
shooting someone point blank. Killing en masse, in a group, is
exciting, even—and I’ve seen this myself—fun.”1

Such sadistic undercurrents were supposed to define Russia’s
opponents; now the near-genocidal practices of Soviet invaders pointed
to the darkest of precedents. “I couldn’t see any difference between
myself and a Nazi,” another admitted. “It’s the same thing: rolled-up sleeves, submachine guns, cries, villages.”2 If all wars abound with atrocity, this was one of a singular kind for Soviet Russia and helped
earn it, before the fighting ended, the unshakeable tag as an “empire
of evil.”

Equally agonizing is how the frightful mess began. Exactly why Soviet leaders—a mere handful in a secret meeting—chose to invade Afghanistan
in 1979 is still unclear. Assumed reasons run from the desire to shore
up a socialist ally in that country’s civil war to concern over the
ripple effect of Islamic revolution in neighboring Iran. What is not a
mystery is that they lied about it. Kremlin documents published after
the breakup of the Soviet Union include the actual blueprint of how
the war was to be scripted for public consumption and shines with gems
of mendacity. The country itself, reads one diktat, “does not have any connection to the changes in leadership in Afghanistan”—except that
Soviet commandoes killed its president in a coup that spearheaded the
invasion. Another falsehood, thought up by someone oblivious to the
irony, insisted that the sole purpose of sending the Red Army was to
protect the Afghan people in their “struggle against foreign
aggression.”3

An arsenal of lies accompanied the troops into battle as well. In the
war’s first years, there was little fighting, at least according to
the Soviet press; instead, troops stationed there were helping their
Afghan “friends” by building schools and hospitals. Only midway
through it, when Mikhail Gorbachev became the leader of the Soviet
Union in 1985 and then instituted the policy of glasnost, did the veil
begin to lift. A new generation of journalists, slowly breaking free
from the state’s monopoly on expression, started to raise questions,
and veterans’ voices, such as those cited above, gained public
attention.

Privately in the Kremlin, the same doubts were being expressed by
Gorbachev himself, who declared in a secret meeting that the war was
like a cancerous wound. After their opponent, the Mujahideen, acquired shoulder-fired missiles capable of knocking down Soviet jets and
helicopter gunships, the conflict was deemed unwinnable and plans for withdrawal were made. That process was completed in early 1989, and by
the year’s end the legislative body, the Congress of People’s
Deputies, ruled that the decision to invade had violated the
constitution. However, none of the gang of four involved in it—Party Secretary Leonid Brezhnev and the heads of the Foreign Ministry,
Defense Ministry, and KGB—was prosecuted since they were already dead, leaving as their collective legacy over a million Afghans killed and,
by official count, nearly fifteen thousand Soviet soldiers.

At that time, as the Soviet Union itself began to implode at the
beginning of the 1990s, chilling revelations became the war’s primary
face, not just in journalism but in fiction and film as well. A
veteran’s novel, like Oleg Ermakov’s Sign of the Beast, fed the image
of an army broken by self-inflicted blows as much as from the
Mujahideen; whereas the movie Afghan Fracture painted it as an immoral predator—so much so that at the end the protagonist, an officer, lets
himself be killed by an Afghan boy as if to atone for the sins
committed by all Soviets there. Nevertheless, journalists still led
the pack, and none more so than Svetlana Alexievich, whose 1990 oral
history Zinky Boys helped win her the Nobel Prize for Literature in
2015.

With a minimalist’s touch, she lets the soldiers speak for themselves.
They appear both as the war’s villains—one gloats over having shot up
an Afghan wedding party and dispatching the “happy couple”—and as its victims. “The lead vehicle in our column broke down going through a village,” another reported. “The driver got out and lifted the hood,
and a boy, about ten years old, rushed out and stabbed him in the
heart.… We turned that boy into a sieve.”4 Alexievich’s work showcases
a war in which, absent a concrete mission, atrocity became policy on
both sides, forming an endless cycle of terror. The Mujahideen
excelled at beheading, castrating, blinding, and flaying prisoners
alive, the Soviet military at flattening villages and sowing countless
mines, many disguised as toys and other knickknacks so as to attract children’s attention.

Appalling, too, were the conditions of service, which remind us of the
worst the Red Army soldiers experienced in World War II. Abused by
superiors, subjected to abject medical conditions, humiliated by
brutal internal hazing, wasted by typhus, forced to steal clothes from
the dead, driven desperate from hunger while being issued canned
rations dating from the 1950s stamped “eat within 18 months”—this is
what the common soldier faced off the battlefield. The only relief was
drug use, which crippled the army and exacerbated the very
circumstances that caused its decline in the first place.

Zinky Boys goes further by detailing how the war’s destructive impact
hit home as well. The accounts by anguished family members push its
physical and psychological toll even higher. Post-traumatic stress
disorder became rampant; anger at the government went unrelieved,
first for sending soldiers there and then, to compound the betrayal,
neglecting them when they came back.

Betrayal extended even to those killed and their families. Death
itself, in the words of one, was subject to a “conspiracy of silence” propagated by the state. A body would be placed in a zinc-lined coffin
so as to slow its decay and thereby generating the ghoulish nickname
given to Soviet soldiers and resurfacing again as Alexievich’s title.
Shipped back to the Soviet Union secretly, sometimes at night, the
coffin would arrive at an airport without any ceremony. From there it
would be delivered directly to the family’s home—often with no
forewarning. After relaying one mother’s account of meeting her son in
such fashion while she was coming down the stairs in the morning,
Alexievich gives us a string of others desperately trying to
understand the frigid heartlessness of this policy.

“It wasn’t like that for me. They [the soldiers who brought it] just
said: ‘The coffin’s outside. Where shall we put it?’ My husband and I were getting ready to go to work, the eggs were frying, the kettle was boiling.…”

“Mine was called up, had his hair shaved off, and five months later
they brought him back in a coffin.”

“Mine too.…”

“Mine—nine months.”

“ ‘Is there anything in there?’ I asked the soldier accompanying the coffin? ‘I saw him being laid in the coffin. He is there.’ I stared at
him and he lowered his eyes. ‘Something’s in there.…’ ”

“Did it smell? Ours did.”

“So did ours. We even had little white worms dropping on to the
floor.”5

Coffins could not be opened, depriving families of the all-important
ritual of washing the body and visually parting with the deceased.
Thus many could still believe that, no, it could not be their son. (In
one way, though, perhaps this was for the better. If not enough of a soldier’s body was recoverable, then dirt was added to give the coffin
proper heft and offer the impression of a loved one peacefully
intact.) As a final insult, dead soldiers were not buried with
military honors and were not grouped together in cemeteries so as to
hide their true number. (Many, in fact, believe the official figure to
be woefully low, estimating that it should be around fifty
thousand—closer to the mark of the Vietnam War for Americans.) And on
the headstone itself, only dates of birth and death were indicated,
thereby erasing the cause and place of death.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: thangolossus@gmail.com

On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 12:57:01 +0300, Gatekeeper
<gatekeeper@alt.dreams.castaneda> wrote:

No conflict has vexed Russia’s self-image more than the Soviet-Afghan
War. The quandary only begins with the fact that it ended in 1989 in a
defeat that helped bring down the Soviet Union. Equally problematic is
that it took place outside of the imagined space of the motherland
and, worse still, violated inherited tradition. Soviet Russia was the unqualified aggressor, invading a neighbor torn by a civil war, and
the conduct of its troops was often abominable. “You soon realize,” a veteran explained, “that what you find really objectionable is
shooting someone point blank. Killing en masse, in a group, is
exciting, even—and I’ve seen this myself—fun.”1

Such sadistic undercurrents were supposed to define Russia’s
opponents; now the near-genocidal practices of Soviet invaders pointed
to the darkest of precedents. “I couldn’t see any difference between
myself and a Nazi,” another admitted. “It’s the same thing: rolled-up sleeves, submachine guns, cries, villages.”2 If all wars abound with atrocity, this was one of a singular kind for Soviet Russia and helped
earn it, before the fighting ended, the unshakeable tag as an “empire
of evil.”

Equally agonizing is how the frightful mess began. Exactly why Soviet leaders—a mere handful in a secret meeting—chose to invade Afghanistan
in 1979 is still unclear. Assumed reasons run from the desire to shore
up a socialist ally in that country’s civil war to concern over the
ripple effect of Islamic revolution in neighboring Iran. What is not a
mystery is that they lied about it. Kremlin documents published after
the breakup of the Soviet Union include the actual blueprint of how
the war was to be scripted for public consumption and shines with gems
of mendacity. The country itself, reads one diktat, “does not have any connection to the changes in leadership in Afghanistan”—except that
Soviet commandoes killed its president in a coup that spearheaded the
invasion. Another falsehood, thought up by someone oblivious to the
irony, insisted that the sole purpose of sending the Red Army was to
protect the Afghan people in their “struggle against foreign
aggression.”3

An arsenal of lies accompanied the troops into battle as well. In the
war’s first years, there was little fighting, at least according to
the Soviet press; instead, troops stationed there were helping their
Afghan “friends” by building schools and hospitals. Only midway
through it, when Mikhail Gorbachev became the leader of the Soviet
Union in 1985 and then instituted the policy of glasnost, did the veil
begin to lift. A new generation of journalists, slowly breaking free
from the state’s monopoly on expression, started to raise questions,
and veterans’ voices, such as those cited above, gained public
attention.

Privately in the Kremlin, the same doubts were being expressed by
Gorbachev himself, who declared in a secret meeting that the war was
like a cancerous wound. After their opponent, the Mujahideen, acquired shoulder-fired missiles capable of knocking down Soviet jets and
helicopter gunships, the conflict was deemed unwinnable and plans for withdrawal were made. That process was completed in early 1989, and by
the year’s end the legislative body, the Congress of People’s
Deputies, ruled that the decision to invade had violated the
constitution. However, none of the gang of four involved in it—Party Secretary Leonid Brezhnev and the heads of the Foreign Ministry,
Defense Ministry, and KGB—was prosecuted since they were already dead, leaving as their collective legacy over a million Afghans killed and,
by official count, nearly fifteen thousand Soviet soldiers.

At that time, as the Soviet Union itself began to implode at the
beginning of the 1990s, chilling revelations became the war’s primary
face, not just in journalism but in fiction and film as well. A
veteran’s novel, like Oleg Ermakov’s Sign of the Beast, fed the image
of an army broken by self-inflicted blows as much as from the
Mujahideen; whereas the movie Afghan Fracture painted it as an immoral predator—so much so that at the end the protagonist, an officer, lets
himself be killed by an Afghan boy as if to atone for the sins
committed by all Soviets there. Nevertheless, journalists still led
the pack, and none more so than Svetlana Alexievich, whose 1990 oral
history Zinky Boys helped win her the Nobel Prize for Literature in
2015.

With a minimalist’s touch, she lets the soldiers speak for themselves.
They appear both as the war’s villains—one gloats over having shot up
an Afghan wedding party and dispatching the “happy couple”—and as its victims. “The lead vehicle in our column broke down going through a village,” another reported. “The driver got out and lifted the hood,
and a boy, about ten years old, rushed out and stabbed him in the
heart.… We turned that boy into a sieve.”4 Alexievich’s work showcases
a war in which, absent a concrete mission, atrocity became policy on
both sides, forming an endless cycle of terror. The Mujahideen
excelled at beheading, castrating, blinding, and flaying prisoners
alive, the Soviet military at flattening villages and sowing countless
mines, many disguised as toys and other knickknacks so as to attract children’s attention.

Appalling, too, were the conditions of service, which remind us of the
worst the Red Army soldiers experienced in World War II. Abused by
superiors, subjected to abject medical conditions, humiliated by
brutal internal hazing, wasted by typhus, forced to steal clothes from
the dead, driven desperate from hunger while being issued canned
rations dating from the 1950s stamped “eat within 18 months”—this is
what the common soldier faced off the battlefield. The only relief was
drug use, which crippled the army and exacerbated the very
circumstances that caused its decline in the first place.

Zinky Boys goes further by detailing how the war’s destructive impact
hit home as well. The accounts by anguished family members push its
physical and psychological toll even higher. Post-traumatic stress
disorder became rampant; anger at the government went unrelieved,
first for sending soldiers there and then, to compound the betrayal,
neglecting them when they came back.

Betrayal extended even to those killed and their families. Death
itself, in the words of one, was subject to a “conspiracy of silence” propagated by the state. A body would be placed in a zinc-lined coffin
so as to slow its decay and thereby generating the ghoulish nickname
given to Soviet soldiers and resurfacing again as Alexievich’s title.
Shipped back to the Soviet Union secretly, sometimes at night, the
coffin would arrive at an airport without any ceremony. From there it
would be delivered directly to the family’s home—often with no
forewarning. After relaying one mother’s account of meeting her son in
such fashion while she was coming down the stairs in the morning,
Alexievich gives us a string of others desperately trying to
understand the frigid heartlessness of this policy.

“It wasn’t like that for me. They [the soldiers who brought it] just
said: ‘The coffin’s outside. Where shall we put it?’ My husband and I were getting ready to go to work, the eggs were frying, the kettle was boiling.…”

“Mine was called up, had his hair shaved off, and five months later
they brought him back in a coffin.”

“Mine too.…”

“Mine—nine months.”

“ ‘Is there anything in there?’ I asked the soldier accompanying the coffin? ‘I saw him being laid in the coffin. He is there.’ I stared at
him and he lowered his eyes. ‘Something’s in there.…’ ”

“Did it smell? Ours did.”

“So did ours. We even had little white worms dropping on to the
floor.”5

Coffins could not be opened, depriving families of the all-important
ritual of washing the body and visually parting with the deceased.
Thus many could still believe that, no, it could not be their son. (In
one way, though, perhaps this was for the better. If not enough of a soldier’s body was recoverable, then dirt was added to give the coffin
proper heft and offer the impression of a loved one peacefully
intact.) As a final insult, dead soldiers were not buried with
military honors and were not grouped together in cemeteries so as to
hide their true number. (Many, in fact, believe the official figure to
be woefully low, estimating that it should be around fifty
thousand—closer to the mark of the Vietnam War for Americans.) And on
the headstone itself, only dates of birth and death were indicated,
thereby erasing the cause and place of death.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: thangolossus@gmail.com

On Sat, 14 Jul 2018 12:57:01 +0300, Gatekeeper <gatekeeper@alt.dreams.castaneda> wrote:

No conflict has vexed Russia’s self-image more than the Soviet-Afghan
War. The quandary only begins with the fact that it ended in 1989 in a
defeat that helped bring down the Soviet Union. Equally problematic is
that it took place outside of the imagined space of the motherland
and, worse still, violated inherited tradition. Soviet Russia was the unqualified aggressor, invading a neighbor torn by a civil war, and
the conduct of its troops was often abominable. “You soon realize,” a veteran explained, “that what you find really objectionable is
shooting someone point blank. Killing en masse, in a group, is
exciting, even—and I’ve seen this myself—fun.”1

Such sadistic undercurrents were supposed to define Russia’s
opponents; now the near-genocidal practices of Soviet invaders pointed
to the darkest of precedents. “I couldn’t see any difference between
myself and a Nazi,” another admitted. “It’s the same thing: rolled-up sleeves, submachine guns, cries, villages.”2 If all wars abound with atrocity, this was one of a singular kind for Soviet Russia and helped
earn it, before the fighting ended, the unshakeable tag as an “empire
of evil.”

Equally agonizing is how the frightful mess began. Exactly why Soviet leaders—a mere handful in a secret meeting—chose to invade Afghanistan
in 1979 is still unclear. Assumed reasons run from the desire to shore
up a socialist ally in that country’s civil war to concern over the
ripple effect of Islamic revolution in neighboring Iran. What is not a
mystery is that they lied about it. Kremlin documents published after
the breakup of the Soviet Union include the actual blueprint of how
the war was to be scripted for public consumption and shines with gems
of mendacity. The country itself, reads one diktat, “does not have any connection to the changes in leadership in Afghanistan”—except that
Soviet commandoes killed its president in a coup that spearheaded the
invasion. Another falsehood, thought up by someone oblivious to the
irony, insisted that the sole purpose of sending the Red Army was to
protect the Afghan people in their “struggle against foreign
aggression.”3

An arsenal of lies accompanied the troops into battle as well. In the
war’s first years, there was little fighting, at least according to
the Soviet press; instead, troops stationed there were helping their
Afghan “friends” by building schools and hospitals. Only midway
through it, when Mikhail Gorbachev became the leader of the Soviet
Union in 1985 and then instituted the policy of glasnost, did the veil
begin to lift. A new generation of journalists, slowly breaking free
from the state’s monopoly on expression, started to raise questions,
and veterans’ voices, such as those cited above, gained public
attention.

Privately in the Kremlin, the same doubts were being expressed by
Gorbachev himself, who declared in a secret meeting that the war was
like a cancerous wound. After their opponent, the Mujahideen, acquired shoulder-fired missiles capable of knocking down Soviet jets and
helicopter gunships, the conflict was deemed unwinnable and plans for withdrawal were made. That process was completed in early 1989, and by
the year’s end the legislative body, the Congress of People’s
Deputies, ruled that the decision to invade had violated the
constitution. However, none of the gang of four involved in it—Party Secretary Leonid Brezhnev and the heads of the Foreign Ministry,
Defense Ministry, and KGB—was prosecuted since they were already dead, leaving as their collective legacy over a million Afghans killed and,
by official count, nearly fifteen thousand Soviet soldiers.

At that time, as the Soviet Union itself began to implode at the
beginning of the 1990s, chilling revelations became the war’s primary
face, not just in journalism but in fiction and film as well. A
veteran’s novel, like Oleg Ermakov’s Sign of the Beast, fed the image
of an army broken by self-inflicted blows as much as from the
Mujahideen; whereas the movie Afghan Fracture painted it as an immoral predator—so much so that at the end the protagonist, an officer, lets
himself be killed by an Afghan boy as if to atone for the sins
committed by all Soviets there. Nevertheless, journalists still led
the pack, and none more so than Svetlana Alexievich, whose 1990 oral
history Zinky Boys helped win her the Nobel Prize for Literature in
2015.

With a minimalist’s touch, she lets the soldiers speak for themselves.
They appear both as the war’s villains—one gloats over having shot up
an Afghan wedding party and dispatching the “happy couple”—and as its victims. “The lead vehicle in our column broke down going through a village,” another reported. “The driver got out and lifted the hood,
and a boy, about ten years old, rushed out and stabbed him in the
heart.… We turned that boy into a sieve.”4 Alexievich’s work showcases
a war in which, absent a concrete mission, atrocity became policy on
both sides, forming an endless cycle of terror. The Mujahideen
excelled at beheading, castrating, blinding, and flaying prisoners
alive, the Soviet military at flattening villages and sowing countless
mines, many disguised as toys and other knickknacks so as to attract children’s attention.

Appalling, too, were the conditions of service, which remind us of the
worst the Red Army soldiers experienced in World War II. Abused by
superiors, subjected to abject medical conditions, humiliated by
brutal internal hazing, wasted by typhus, forced to steal clothes from
the dead, driven desperate from hunger while being issued canned
rations dating from the 1950s stamped “eat within 18 months”—this is
what the common soldier faced off the battlefield. The only relief was
drug use, which crippled the army and exacerbated the very
circumstances that caused its decline in the first place.

Zinky Boys goes further by detailing how the war’s destructive impact
hit home as well. The accounts by anguished family members push its
physical and psychological toll even higher. Post-traumatic stress
disorder became rampant; anger at the government went unrelieved,
first for sending soldiers there and then, to compound the betrayal,
neglecting them when they came back.

Betrayal extended even to those killed and their families. Death
itself, in the words of one, was subject to a “conspiracy of silence” propagated by the state. A body would be placed in a zinc-lined coffin
so as to slow its decay and thereby generating the ghoulish nickname
given to Soviet soldiers and resurfacing again as Alexievich’s title.
Shipped back to the Soviet Union secretly, sometimes at night, the
coffin would arrive at an airport without any ceremony. From there it
would be delivered directly to the family’s home—often with no
forewarning. After relaying one mother’s account of meeting her son in
such fashion while she was coming down the stairs in the morning,
Alexievich gives us a string of others desperately trying to
understand the frigid heartlessness of this policy.

“It wasn’t like that for me. They [the soldiers who brought it] just
said: ‘The coffin’s outside. Where shall we put it?’ My husband and I were getting ready to go to work, the eggs were frying, the kettle was boiling.…”

“Mine was called up, had his hair shaved off, and five months later
they brought him back in a coffin.”

“Mine too.…”

“Mine—nine months.”

“ ‘Is there anything in there?’ I asked the soldier accompanying the coffin? ‘I saw him being laid in the coffin. He is there.’ I stared at
him and he lowered his eyes. ‘Something’s in there.…’ ”

“Did it smell? Ours did.”

“So did ours. We even had little white worms dropping on to the
floor.”5

Coffins could not be opened, depriving families of the all-important
ritual of washing the body and visually parting with the deceased.
Thus many could still believe that, no, it could not be their son. (In
one way, though, perhaps this was for the better. If not enough of a soldier’s body was recoverable, then dirt was added to give the coffin
proper heft and offer the impression of a loved one peacefully
intact.) As a final insult, dead soldiers were not buried with
military honors and were not grouped together in cemeteries so as to
hide their true number. (Many, in fact, believe the official figure to
be woefully low, estimating that it should be around fifty
thousand—closer to the mark of the Vietnam War for Americans.) And on
the headstone itself, only dates of birth and death were indicated,
thereby erasing the cause and place of death.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.org

This group is dedicated to Carlos Castaneda legacy and teachings of his
teacher known as Don Juan.

Fuck that Puto (FTP)

### - haha so why's it called: alt.dreams castaneda then? (really
laffing...)

isn't that what 'dedicated' means? (has his 'name' on it...)

thus matie's actually just making a statement of fact! ;)

nice observation matie! albeit only stating the obvious...

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: allreadydun@gmail.com

This group is dedicated to Carlos Castaneda legacy and teachings of his

teacher known as Don Juan.

Fuck that Puto (FTP)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: thangolossus@gmail.com

On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 14:29:21 +0100, slider <slider@anashram.org>
wrote:

This group is dedicated to Carlos Castaneda legacy and teachings of his
teacher known as Don Juan.

Fuck that Puto (FTP)

### - haha so why's it called: alt.dreams castaneda then? (really
laffing...)

isn't that what 'dedicated' means? (has his 'name' on it...)

thus matie's actually just making a statement of fact! ;)

nice observation matie! albeit only stating the obvious...

I've told you before, this guy is a stupid russian stooge like all his cuntry-men, killers, alcoholics, poisoners, deluders, pedophiles,
scammers, fraudsters, gippers, thievies, thugs, barbarians - and this
is a bot (as you've previously pointed out).

Now, May is going for Spewtin's jugular and about time. Two cunts
charged and Spewtin can't dodge anymore. Even clods like you Brian
can't ignore the fucking bleeding obvious :)

It's a shame Hitler didn't knock off more of them...and Napoleon
before that, and Kaiser Wilhelm in between :)

But it doesn't matter because a full fucking QUARTER of russian "men"
are gonna die before they hit 55 due to poverty, malnutrition and
mainly vodka overdosages...

The only good thing about russians is they hate Muslims. I mean, they
REALLY hate them. Watch the news for the items on "Idlib"...


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: rainbowguardian@web.de

Am 06.10.2018 um 11:57 schrieb Gatekeeper:

Hi visitor!

This group is dedicated to Carlos Castaneda legacy and teachings of his

teacher known as Don Juan.

This is unmoderated group, so there are lots of spam here.
There is a way to get rid of spam/off-topic/abuse in this group.
Use free moderated mailing list to get relevant only messages: http://insensciety.com/mailman/listinfo/alt.dreams.castaneda

Thank you and please keep posting to the group any information dedicated to

the group topic.

This reminder will be posted here weekly.

Group's Gatekeeper

YOU're not and never was sündlos!!!!! Carlitos motherfockin shit crow!

--
https://cosmicpurple.blog/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: thangolossus@gmail.com

There *are* no visitors here, Russki bot-boi. The place will be soon
dead, dead as a doornail. There are only three permanents here now,
all of whom are well over 60 years of age. Then there's me - about
the same age, and only here until that cunt Brian Aherne pays me what
he owes me.

Then there's the other guy, the one on day-release and slow release
Lithium. He doesn't know where the fuck he is.

The dream is almost over (lol).

Russki cunt.


On Sat, 15 Dec 2018 12:57:02 +0200, Gatekeeper <gatekeeper@alt.dreams.castaneda> wrote:

Hi visitor!

This group is dedicated to Carlos Castaneda legacy and teachings of his teacher known as Don Juan.

This is unmoderated group, so there are lots of spam here.
There is a way to get rid of spam/off-topic/abuse in this group.
Use free moderated mailing list to get relevant only messages: >http://insensciety.com/mailman/listinfo/alt.dreams.castaneda

Thank you and please keep posting to the group any information dedicated to the group topic.

This reminder will be posted here weekly.

Group's Gatekeeper

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@atashram.com

On Tue, 13 Aug 2019 05:01:04 +0100, <brandonty715@gmail.com> wrote:

- [x] Hi guys, if you’re ever in need of some psychedelics( shrooms, mescaline, dmt, acid, ayahausca, 5MEO-DMT or other relatives, don’t hesitate msg me 518-323-9863. Let me kow if you have any questions too…
I got you. Thanks

### - lol looks like someone's really got it in-for the lucky owner of
this phone number eh?

so now what kinda low-life resorts to using such vile tactics to bring
hurt to others huh, anyone we know?

the lowest of the low and the least intelligent of all, that's who, we've
seen 'this' kinda shit before?

as for the erm, kind offer heh, nah it's ok sport, we know where to get
the 'good' stuff hah!

so piss off and crawl back under yer stone ya little shit

and don't come back...

lol it's not jeremy is it?? (kidding?)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

### - turns out that 518-323-9863 is associated with these dudes

https://www.facebook.com/GreenGardensMagazine

so it looks like someone is deliberately making trouble for them by
spamming their number

and because no one in their right mind would key their number to such a
blatant plug for narcotics??

must have made themselves an enemy somewhere then huh, or maybe it's just jealousy/a-competitor...

there's such small/petty minds in wallyworld ;)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: allreadydun@gmail.com

ah bullshit we don't follow no castaneda or any other
delusional dogshit. we follow this though:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs069dndIYk

sing that song you funky white boys

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: rainbowguardian@web.de

Am 14.12.2019 um 11:57 schrieb Gatekeeper:

You green pigs, i gonna kill you all!

https://youtu.be/_YfvBnTe16o

--
https://omnicolorlightfantasticloveslowtemplecosmicpurple.wordpress.com/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: rainbowguardian@web.de

Am 25.01.2020 um 11:57 schrieb Gatekeeper:

Hi visitor!

This group is dedicated to Carlos Castaneda legacy and teachings of his

teacher known as Don Juan.

This is unmoderated group, so there are lots of spam here.
There is a way to get rid of spam/off-topic/abuse in this group.
Use free moderated mailing list to get relevant only messages: http://insensciety.com/mailman/listinfo/alt.dreams.castaneda

Thank you and please keep posting to the group any information dedicated to

the group topic.

This reminder will be posted here weekly.

Group's Gatekeeper

Hi gatekeeper and Link, carlos is now an angelito and working for god,
so now you can stop to post such shit, i saw him doing his angelwork!

Good luck with your black magic!

--
https://slowtemplelovecozmicpurple.space/

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)