• some words on Mr Trump - ping Dave

    From thang ornerythinchus@1:229/2 to All on Thursday, June 21, 2018 16:49:09
    From: thangolossus@gmail.com

    I do believe, now, in the deep state in the US. And that there is
    such a thing as fake news.

    I think Trump will persevere in the long term but the forces arrayed
    against him by the so called "progressives" - who are anything but -
    are impressive.

    Some observations:

    We all agree that Fox News is nothing but a cheer squad for Trump.
    However, it is the only one - all other outlets, almost without
    exception, are biased against him in every way that counts.

    Before Trump made his deal, his momentous meeting, with Kim,
    practically every news outlet was beyond scepticism. They were
    outright contemptuous. However, when he actually met with Kim, did
    the deal, signed the heads of memorandum and so on, even then there
    was little or no acclaimation for his work.

    Compare that with Obama who got a fucking NOBEL for a stinking speech
    about nothing to a bunch of Muslims in Cairo!!

    The news outlets spout about Trump being conned by Kim into giving up
    the war games and bringing back the troops from ROK. Reality is
    different though - Trump actually said the following:

    “We have 32,000 soldiers in South Korea. I would like to be able to
    bring them back home. That’s not part of the equation. At some point,
    I hope it would be."

    “We will stop the war games which will save us a tremendous amount of
    money. Unless and until we see the future negotiation is not going
    along like it should.”

    In both cases, the "fake news" faked the news. The soldiers won't be
    removed until "some point" is reached and that was not part of the
    "equation". Not part of the deal. The fake news made it part of the
    deal as though Trump had been conned. He was not.

    Same with the war games (which is what they are). However, they will
    start up again if future negotiations are not to Trump's liking.
    Again, the fake news faked the news into something else.

    Dave holds himself out as a "progressive". In the main, progressives
    were the ones who immediately deprecated the Trump-Kim deal even
    before the ink on the signatures had dried. And one doesn't need to
    look too closely to understand that the reason for this reflexive
    deprecation is simply the "progressives'" loathing for Trump. He is
    forever coloured by their bias - and Dave is almost the epitome of a progressive who cannot separate the work of Trump, his outcomes, from
    Dave's loathing of the man himself.

    In Australian sporting jargon, this is called "playing the man, not
    the ball". This is Dave's error of logic and reason.

    Let me quote from an article published here in Australia:


    "How could anyone professing progress be against any attempt to end
    one of the great threats facing the world: a nuclear-armed rogue state
    run by the third generation in a line of murderous dictators?

    One of their main complaints was that Trump did not secure
    undertakings about human rights abuses before committing Kim to the
    agreement.

    Stopping the threat of nuclear annihilation and encouraging North
    Korea back into the free world is the best progress human rights has
    seen in the hermit kingdom for decades.

    The progressives attacked Trump for sitting down with someone who
    enslaved his political opponents and even murdered members of his own
    family who threatened his rule.

    How do they think Winston Churchill felt dealing with Russian dictator
    Joseph Stalin who already had the blood of six or seven million of his
    people on his hands when they met for the first time in Moscow in
    1942?

    Why did Churchill agree to do it? Simply because it was in pursuit of
    a greater good. And Stalin went on to murder many millions more of his
    people after that, but Churchill had rescued Europe from Adolph
    Hitler.

    Anyone who expected Trump and Kim to do more than achieve the heads of
    an agreement, given their personal history and the compressed nature
    of their first meeting, is also a fool.

    The progressive naysayers pointed to past agreements with North Korea
    without noting the one glaring omission in that history: none had been
    made person-to-person by the leader of North Korea and anyone of the
    stature of the American president.

    That’s what made Tuesday different. The six-party talks in 2005 only
    ever produced a statement of principles in a very hostile environment.

    If the next stage of negotiations cannot tie North Korea to
    independent verification of denuclearisation then there will be just
    cause for criticism.

    But Trump has at least got Kim to a deal and regardless of what
    blinkered commentators like Barron say, he did not give away the farm.

    Anyone who thinks dispassionately about what happened can’t help but
    see that Trump opened a door to the world for Kim, his oppressed
    countrymen and the majority of South Koreans who long for unification.

    If the Little Rocket Man wants to walk through it, his country can be transformed."

    Read this Dave and try to open your closet like mind. You weren't
    always so fossilised and ossified in thought. You were young once.
    Make your brain young again and try to step outside of your biases and prejudices. Invite reality in.


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  • From Jeremy H. Denisovan@1:229/2 to All on Thursday, June 21, 2018 15:15:32
    From: david.j.worrell@gmail.com

    Why should I care what you say? You obviously don't even read what
    I say and then you argue with a straw man. What is the point of that?
    I have no desire to talk with you. It's a complete waste of my time.

    .

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  • From thang ornerythinchus@1:229/2 to david.j.worrell@gmail.com on Monday, June 25, 2018 12:09:13
    From: thangolossus@gmail.com

    On Thu, 21 Jun 2018 15:15:32 -0700 (PDT), "Jeremy H. Denisovan" <david.j.worrell@gmail.com> wrote:

    Why should I care what you say? You obviously don't even read what
    I say and then you argue with a straw man. What is the point of that?
    I have no desire to talk with you. It's a complete waste of my time.

    Oh I read what you snip and paste all right. You are unbalanced in
    your views. You don't see the wood for the trees. Never have, as far
    as I can see, and therefore, most probably never will. Old dog, new
    tricks and all that...

    And I promise I won't call you "wizened" anymore :)


    .

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