i think what Richard Alpert was pointing out was not to get
too much into the future over shit and not to get stuck in
past bullshit.
And it is very easy to do that. Especially
when you want to be RIGHT. Both of you two love to be
the 'right' one. example: "i'm right motherfucker"! "no
i'm right fuckwad". Let's argue about nothing with 15
responses here and blow alot of time pulling our puds.
Hey remember energy? How much do you have to piss away
over nothing? Heavy heavy BELIEF thinking you are right.
Ya just might be wrong, you just might have come to the
WRONG conclusion. I wouldn't hold on to being right about
anything. EVERYTHING can change in moment's notice.
Be ready to alter your decision, view, position, etc etc,
adapt to now, not back then. Be here now knuckleheads. lol!
Look guys... you were both talking about having "no beliefs".
But then you BOTH ended up defending this "be here now" *belief*.
Apparently without noticing any contradiction?
This is one reason I was concerned about beliefs. :)
Many, many people are irrational as hell about their beliefs.
And 'Baba Ram Dass' goes far beyond merely saying "be here now".
His book is full of many, many other beliefs, really wild ones.
Reminder, you were both claiming you wanted "no beliefs", right?
For example, just a few pages into his book, the Baba says:
"energy = love = awareness = light = wisdom = beauty =
truth = purity... It's all the same."
That's not only a basketful of beliefs, it's metaphorical gibberish.
Ram Dass makes claims such as that if "you have left the gravitational
field of time and space" then you can see "karma unfolding" in
such a way in which "this life is only part of a mosaic".
Here he professes his belief in karma and reincarnation.
I will remind you once again, you were wondering what it would be
like to get rid of "beliefs", and yet... just a little later you're
both defending this "be here now" belief from Ram Dass, whose book
is an endless series of metaphysical and religious beliefs. Weird.
Getting "stuck" obsessing on *anything*, including the past, future,
*or present*, isn't great. There are times when it's necessary to
focus on the past, and times when it's good to focus on the future.
For example, if you sit down to create a resume, or write your
autobiography, or balance your checkbook, etc. you'll find it is
necessary to focus on past actions, although you'll perform
the activity itself in the present (again, there is no way
to actually perform an activity other than in the present).
And if you want to take a week-long trip somewhere, unless you
carefully plan a route encompassing everything you want to see
in an efficient way and make all needed reservations, I guarantee
you'll have trouble that could have been avoided by taking time
to focus on planning the future in an orderly fashion. Go ahead,
try always just showing up in the "now" for anything you decide
you want to do, without first focusing on the future long enough
to get reservations, tickets, and/or detailed info about where
you're going, and find out what happens, compared to how it goes
with good planning.
I know what happens because when I was young and foolish I tried
many times to do things spontaneously in the moment - since it was
my natural style. I got turned away from stuff I wanted to do
several times because I hadn't prepared for the future situation.
I'm still a big fan of leaving some space for spontaneous actions,
but I also learned that it's effective and often quite necessary
to spend some time focusing on the hypothetical future and
planning for at least the general framework of what you'll need
in advance.
Remember the Boy Scout motto: be prepared. :) Your FOCUS
when preparing is on what you expect to need in the future.
That's different than just "being here now".
There are actually few things one can do in the moment that
do not simultaneously require at least some focus on the
near future and/or the recent past.
For example, playing a song. When a band counts off "1, 2, 3, 4"
before the song, they do that in anticipation of a near-future
moment when they'll all begin playing at the same time.
The singers have to remember the lines in each verse, the players
have to remember the chords, melodies, and beats (past memory)
and they must all anticipate each near-future moment when they'll
all break into the chorus or the middle eight at once (or all
stop playing at once). And they figured all that out and practiced
it in the past, prior to performing it in public. Thus, playing
a song is a flow that requires remembering the past and executing
in the present, while anticipating the near future.
This isn't rocket science. We do not simply go through life only
"being here now". One more example. I might plan to give Vicki's
daughter a birthday gift on her birthday next week. To do that,
I will first give some thought as to whether in the recent past
I've heard her mention anything she wants, and if I recall
anything then I'll plan to make a purchase to have it arrive
in the near future, in time to give it to her next week.
Are you getting it yet? Most things we do are like this.
I could easily create dozens of similar examples.
*Beliefs* like "be here now" sound good until you start thinking
about them realistically. But if that belief is bogus, it doesn't
mean all beliefs are bogus. Most beliefs are natural and logical,
so much so that people often don't even notice them.
.
For example, playing a song. When a band counts off "1, 2, 3, 4"
before the song, they do that in anticipation of a near-future
moment when they'll all begin playing at the same time.
The singers have to remember the lines in each verse, the players
have to remember the chords, melodies, and beats (past memory)
and they must all anticipate each near-future moment when they'll
all break into the chorus or the middle eight at once (or all
stop playing at once). And they figured all that out and practiced
it in the past, prior to performing it in public. Thus, playing
a song is a flow that requires remembering the past and executing
in the present, while anticipating the near future.
so what is a belief? where the hell does it come from?
FROM what authority??
It comes from thinking.
You think the same thought over and over and
then boom: you come to a conclusion (belief).
Oh shit it must be true because little old me me
thought it. By golly my mind is never wrong.
Ha ha, if it was only that easy.
No one can disprove there is a God.
They all hide behind the thought that there
is a God. The Bible told me so and so did all
the tyrants of time throughout history. God damn it,
it must be true. Would i lie to you honey? lol!
When people lie they actually don't KNOW any better.
They believe their own bullshit. Then (much latter)
we find out what is real. If you live a life of sincerity
it means that you have the courage to admit that you
blew it sometimes so you have to admit you were wrong.
So what? You're wrong or incorrect, ok stand in line
over there and face the firing squad you piece of shit.
Lighten up and get use to the fact that not every
thought or belief you have is where it's at.
We don't encourage people to admit they are wrong,
this is why we have the congress and senate people
we have today. I won't even go into Trumpski. Son of
a bitch god only knows what he thinks. :)
On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 10:14:24 AM UTC-7, slider wrote:
On Thu, 31 May 2018 15:53:51 +0100, Jeremy H. DenisovanI wasn't talking about 'Art'. That's just one of your smokescreens
wrote:
On Thursday, May 31, 2018 at 5:21:14 AM UTC-7, slider wrote:speak
### - no jeremy, you're going out on a huge limb here quite
unnecessarily,
there's no need for all this except perhaps in your pedantic-type
paranoid
reasoning, as both chris & i are, ahem, fully grown up peeps who are
perfectly able to laff & joke around on this so-well-known subject
without
getting into danger, ok? i mean duh! give it a fucking rest already!
we're
not talkin' Nietzsche here!
The fact that you contradicted yourselves every time you tried to
on the subject (and refused to even listen to my attempts to dig
into the real issues deeper) proves that this isn't "unnecessary".
### - oh don't be so daft heh... admittedly there is, however, a kinda
contradictory/paradoxical element to Art if only because Art isn't
really
something rational per se that can be duly defined & nailed down... and
is
in fact the very criterion that 'makes' it Art! and which is something
ya
have to allow for whenever appraising it... Art is 'subjective' not
objective!
attempting to derail the real discourse. It's just as idiotic to try
to equate 'art and religious belief' as it is to try to equate 'religious belief and science'. If that's what you're now trying to do now?
No surprise. With you, there's "no error of reasoning unturned".
havingi know you 'think' you mean well, but in truth *you're* the one who's
all
messed up with and by all this, not us! we're just horsing around
appreciatefun here throwing these concepts around, and i for one don't
verybeing jumped on and lectured each and every time when even just the
'idea' crops up?? piss off!
I don't think you even "meant well".
You refused to contemplate the deeper concepts I wanted to discuss
and now say "piss off, we were only horsing around". Yes, exactly,
you were only horsing around with issues that are genuinely deep
and embedded in virtually every aspect of life, and at first your
only reaction was to try to "prove me wrong". (You've tried that
a hundred times without ever succeeding, one would think you'd get
tired of banging your own head).
Lonely echos from a council flat. Who cares...
### - omg! is there anything 'more revolting' that these 2 'snobs' with
their noses firmly stuck up each other's arseholes brown-nosing each
other??
ewwwww! (shudder...)
:D
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 00:23:31 +0100, thang ornerythinchus ><thangolossus@gmail.com> wrote:
Lonely echos from a council flat. Who cares...
### - you, enough apparently heh, to reply to 4 only to call me names?? :)
plus, of the many subjects covered in all those posts that you 'could'
have chosen/selected to reply to, you opted for only the most mundane
things to get worked-up over?? (not a lotta intellect going on there then >innit! lol)
sorry, can't really be bothered dealing with such mundane shite thang...
ya really gots to try and up your game sport? it's pitiful! there's no >content??
and 'coz merely shitting outta your mouth don't really cut it mate
hehehe...
:D
plus it's around now, i suppose, that we can expect your more usual, eyes >rolled back in your head, monologue re the universe and the long telephone >numbers involved you get so impressed with like it actually fucking
'means' anything more than mere masturbation alone for all the good it'll >ever do you or anyone come to that heh... mental masturbation to make >yourself 'feel' better?? hahaha!
side note: have you ever noticed how 'dumb' people almost 'never' get
bored??
hahaha :D
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