From: slider@anashram.com

ain't it hard when you discover that it
was not so free afterall?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhcLimQwlIw

go ahead, refute all you like, in fact,
knock yourself out. be my guest :)

### - it's not difficult, because there's nada to refute haha :)))

i.e., both day & night exist, even though they are the complete opposite
of each other and therefore incompatible...

iow: it's a false premise to suggest they're incompatible when, in
reality, they are actually both only part of the same thing albeit
seen/viewed from different/partial perspectives only! day & night only
'appear' to be a contradiction/paradox but aren't; they're just the 2
sides of the same one coin :)

freewill and determinism are therefore not incompatible at all and are similarly just part of the same one thing albeit seen/viewed from some
kinda partial pov that creates the false premise that they're separate
items...

it's a simple enough idea, so then the solution is equally simple: ya
simply remove the 'I' from the equation and the problem goes away because
the 'question' never exists in the first place hah!

i.e., take the 'I' out of everything and ya don't even have to 'ask' the question because the question, which doesn't then exist, doesn't ever
arise! :)

perforce in resolving this problem this leaves a person in a kind of
zen-state wherein 'I' doesn't ever enter into anything, false/fake
intellectual concepts like free will disappear altogether and the question
then never arises because other, more real, things come to the fore
instead: such as acting more in harmony with the world around us instead
of being intellectually separated from it by indulging in this concept of
there being an 'I' who can (albeit only in its imagination) seemingly act
apart from everything else via indulging in a purely intellectual +
separated sense of 'I'

no 'I', no problem, no bs ;)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: allreadydun@gmail.com

ain't it hard when you discover that it
was not so free afterall?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhcLimQwlIw

go ahead, refute all you like, in fact,
knock yourself out. be my guest :)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: allreadydun@gmail.com

### - it's not difficult, because there's nada to refute haha :)))

so how's that free will been workin' for ya then?
No answer to the question?

i.e., both day & night exist, even though they are the complete opposite
of each other and therefore incompatible...

they are not complete opposite. Geezus.

iow: it's a false premise to suggest they're incompatible when, in
reality, they are actually both only part of the same thing albeit seen/viewed from different/partial perspectives only! day & night only 'appear' to be a contradiction/paradox but aren't; they're just the 2
sides of the same one coin :)

blah blah blah, what is this demo talk? You been listening to bozo Biden again ?

freewill and determinism are therefore not incompatible at all and are similarly just part of the same one thing albeit seen/viewed from some
kinda partial pov that creates the false premise that they're separate items...

they are two separate items.

it's a simple enough idea, so then the solution is equally simple: ya
simply remove the 'I' from the equation and the problem goes away because
the 'question' never exists in the first place hah!

new age bypass work? wtf?

i.e., take the 'I' out of everything and ya don't even have to 'ask' the question because the question, which doesn't then exist, doesn't ever
arise! :)

Christ your truck broke down out in right field somewhere.
get back in the game dufus.

perforce in resolving this problem this leaves a person in a kind of zen-state wherein 'I' doesn't ever enter into anything, false/fake intellectual concepts like free will disappear altogether and the question then never arises because other, more real, things come to the fore
instead: such as acting more in harmony with the world around us instead
of being intellectually separated from it by indulging in this concept of there being an 'I' who can (albeit only in its imagination) seemingly act apart from everything else via indulging in a purely intellectual +
separated sense of 'I'

i think you listened to too much Allan Watts or something.
zen shmen, do you have free choice or don't you?

no 'I', no problem, no bs ;)

you either have a free choice or you don't.
and not choosing is also a choice, so you can't weasel out here zen boy.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

i think you listened to too much Allan Watts or something.
zen shmen, do you have free choice or don't you?

### - but have already answered your question heh :)))

no 'I', no problem, no bs

you either have a free choice or you don't.

### - an either/or solution being the only illusion here: is/was my whole point... an intellectual game we play with ourselves that only exists in
our heads, a game created by this sense of 'I' that conceptually holds
itself apart from everything else thus making it 'seem' like we have a
choice where no choice actually exists... (do you remember buying tickets
to come here?? no of course not! no free choice on your part was ever involved...)

and not choosing is also a choice, so you can't weasel out here zen boy.

### - 'I' is the only weasel (and illusion) around here matey, which is
what zen is ultimately all about: the absence of 'I' and the resulting completely different perception of the world there being no 'I' results
in...

i.e., thinking in terms of 'I' gives rise to a particular knowledge-set
and way of thinking, whereas the lack of 'I' gives rise to a completely different knowledge set not at all based on rationales, conceptualisations and/or rationalisations...

and THAT's the answer ;)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

not too swift wrote :)))

home plate umpire calls strike 3, you're outta here scooter.
i'd eat you alive in person with that kinda of crap.

### - you demand an either/or solution and there isn't one to that
particular paradox...

i.e., you're stuck thinking IN the box there matey when the answer is
obviously outside of it

plus it's s'not my problem if'n you can't accept the answer by refusing to
see the bigger picture even though it was very clearly spelled out for
ya... you want the answer 'your' way and your way only??

in which case the phrase: 'dumb as a bucket of rocks' springs eternally to
mind haha :)))

nope, you're not cooked yet, so back under ya go...

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: allreadydun@gmail.com

home plate umpire calls strike 3, you're outta here scooter.
i'd eat you alive in person with that kinda of crap.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

i'd eat you alive in person with that kinda of crap.

### - if'n you were gonna behave like that i just wouldn't come around heh
:)))

“The sad truth is that man's real life consists of a complex of inexorable opposites - day and night, birth and death, happiness and misery, good and evil. We are not even sure that one will prevail against the other, that
good will overcome evil, or joy defeat pain. Life is a battleground. It
always has been and always will be; and if it were not so, existence would
come to an end."

~ C. G. Jung ;)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

keeps tryin' to bait me wrote...

### - if'n you were gonna behave like that i just wouldn't come around
heh
:)))

big pussy. (makes chicken sounds in the background) ha ha

### - nope, it's still not doin' nuthin', there just ain't enough ego left
here boss to be baited?

but don't let that stop ya, you keep tryin' to prove what a master-baiter
you are LOL !

(master-baiter, get it? aha ha ha)

:D

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: allreadydun@gmail.com

slider wrote:

### - if'n you were gonna behave like that i just wouldn't come around heh :)))

big pussy. (makes chicken sounds in the background) ha ha

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: slider@anashram.com

still hangin' (unbelievably) at around the midway point wrote...

still think you have free will? Oh yeah, it's free all right.
you just keep thinkin' that, you'll be free, sure you will.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_BTVN68-ZA

### - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGdqsrwt2Ec

personally voting for randomness here... jeremy (for example) hated this
whole argument and fought fiercely against it to preserve there being such
a thing as free will (he obviously has problems letting-go/is somewhat anal-retentive lol...) and as such often amused me with his overt mental gymnastics in order to do so... which he never could quite manage and so
always ended up getting frustrated and just calling me names instead hah;
i even used to bet on how long he'd last before exploding? :)))

iow: shit just happens, and there's no real rhyme nor reason for it that
WE can ever really fathom, so people just made up a whole bunch of stuff
to make 'themselves' feel better about it in order to maintain the
illusion that they still have some 'say' in how it all goes... (this is
our culture and this is what we do and believe in etc etc, blah blah
blah...)

and it doesn't really matter exactly 'what' you make-up (or choose to
'believe' in) either just so long as it sufficiently distracts from the
reality of our true life situation, something which is otherwise quite
alarming unless you have all this potential bs to fall-back to that at
least provides some sense (albeit completely illusionary) that people know
what they're doing & why (shields?)

thus scientists, for example, are ultimately just a bunch of people (a particular cult of believers) going around being all 'scientific' about everything and looking exclusively at things in that manner, rationalising everything, exactly the same as ALL the other cults do albeit
ever-eloquently talking about/justifying different stupid things...

the 'Truth' of our situation, however, being that we don't really know
shit about nada and never will (not intellectually anyway) and as such
should resist the urge to make shit up just to make ourselves feel better/less-scared, effectively 'hiding' from life!?

coz imho we 'should' be scared! rattled/sober/awake enough anyway to probe
& explore things as they actually 'are' as opposed to what people turn it
all 'into' for the purposes of bs-ing themselves into some kinda
comfort-zone! ("walking the dog, beer, supper etc etc" they ended up
living in some kinda twilight-sleep...)

and because if we're not being 'real' about our overall life-situation
then wtf are we doing??

if not just playin' with ourselves hah :D

(always said humanity was a bunch of wankers didn't i heh, some of 'em are quite nice tho/worth preserving...)

;)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)

From: allreadydun@gmail.com

still think you have free will? Oh yeah, it's free all right.
you just keep thinkin' that, you'll be free, sure you will.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_BTVN68-ZA

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: www.darkrealms.ca (1:229/2)